rulururu

post Open Letter from Coober Pedy Regional Times

July 11th, 2008

Filed under: Copley and Districts Progress Association News,Your Stories — newseditor @ 10:10 am

This post was submitted by Margaret Mackay, Editor of the Coober Pedy Regional Times, contact details below.

Hello Copley, we see you’re back online. We’re getting letters to Ed and phone calls about the News site.

“This site has been taken down at the request of the Copley and Districts Progress Association.”

Is everything ok over there? What’s the story with pulling the plug? Readers want and deserve an explanation.

You can’t unplug the News guys, it’s not China! And it isn’t progress.

We had the ABC on the phone yesterday…What do you want, prime time NATIONAL NEWS? Silencing a community is not done in this country and you can’t hide this even in Copley. We are going to notice!

If you guys don’t like different, then come over here. We have 43 nationalities and they are all different. But you have to appreciate differences. You can’t have it one way… Go for a holiday…get a break..come back fresh. Noone OWNS Copley. People share. People are fair. People care. Have you lost your sense of community?

You cannot justify this. A violation has occured in a position of trust. A community service has been pulled with no notice and no explanation.

Will the Editor or “progress” please get back to us with some answers for regional readers? “In writing”. Deadline is next Wednesday 5 pm.
Unfortunately you have been progressed right across the country for this little stunt. If I pick up my phone one more time and it’s about Copley, it will be reported to our Federal MP for investigation.

Margaret Mackay
Coober Pedy Regional Times
cooberpedyregionaltimes.net (10 – 23 July_page 7)
cptimes@ozemail.com.au
08 86725920

142 Comments

  1. Ahhh yes – typical reaction from someone who doesn’t live in the area. Wonder how she’d like it if we interfered in her town? Some people really do need to mind their own beeswax! :ugh:

    Comment by Rose — July 11, 2008 @ 11:31 am

  2. Does anyone know where Lindhurst is……????

    Comment by Rose — July 11, 2008 @ 12:40 pm

  3. eh?

    Comment by di — July 11, 2008 @ 3:26 pm

  4. wow, I had no idea this blog was so far reaching. I have had friends in Adelaide phoning me too, wondering what the story behind the site being taken down was about. Thankfully, our newseditor has kept the flow as smooth as possible and we are continuing to highlight our special brand of ‘small town politics’ as well as all the really positive information, sharing of ideas and ideals, how to plant things, funny jokes, environmental issues, our wonderful area and all it has to give for the visiting tourists….so much.
    Maybe remembering that what you do in your little space on earth reflects into the wider community. I think its called ‘the butterfly effect’. So, the attempt to silence a community, to disallow democracy, to ignore Natural Justice is seen as an issue reflecting on Australian ideals. That’s how I see it anyway. It is the business of all Australians.

    Comment by di — July 11, 2008 @ 3:41 pm

  5. Dear Rose,
    The far north of South Australia is a unit in several ways. We share the area of Grey. We share SA tourism. We share information. Many of us share families and friends in each other’s areas. We like to visit. We like to brag about our region as a destination bringing much needed business to your town.

    We promote YOU and every other area as a total package at our own cost. This town also spends money distributing regional news to the state and overseas at no cost. When we receive complaints, they make it our business. This episode has taken up much of our personal time in enquiries from afar through lack of your own news service. You are very free to comment on issues here as we also have plenty which we freely air.

    However our council does not disparage us. Nor does it seek to silence us.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 11, 2008 @ 6:38 pm

  6. Why have people contacted you about the problem? I would have thought the correct procedure would have been to contact the CDPA. If people are so concerned about the lack of news service from this area, then I suggest they read the Copley & District Progress Association News thread, & pay particular attention to comment #16. Then read the whole thread thoroughly, & if they can’t see why the CDPA asked for the site closure then they’re not very bright! Or they can write a letter to the CDPA, I’m sure they will be only too happy to set the record straight.

    Comment by Rose — July 11, 2008 @ 8:14 pm

  7. Further to my last post, I refer to your last sentence: [Quote]However our council does not disparage us.[Quote] We do not have a council. If we were, things might be different. People would actually have to abide by the decisions that are made, instead of just going off & doing their own thing when a decision doesn’t suit them.

    Comment by Rose — July 11, 2008 @ 8:26 pm

  8. thanks for clarifying on the other thread Rose that the reason the blog was pulled was because CDPA didn’t want to pay for other people to criticise them.

    now it’s all good though, because even though the current webpage at news.copley.org.au makes CDPA look like they are completely clueless (the big stupid font, the white page, the picture of the horse’s ass), at least they are paying for it.

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 11, 2008 @ 10:06 pm

  9. Well the joke is on you then, because they aren’t paying for it.

    Comment by Rose — July 11, 2008 @ 10:13 pm

  10. Dear Rose,

    I gather from your comments here that you may be a member of the CDPA. The Association who pulled the plug on the community members News site.

    Coober Pedy had a progress association many years ago which evolved into a District Council. We find it very professional as we can attend meetings and have our say and we are considered by all councillors under the guidance of our Mayor who is impartial. Perhaps we are just “lucky”, but we have great transparancy in our governing body who takes care of the pratical needs of our town.

    Our council (governing body) does not get into our personal business. They support us so that we can progress individually and collectively. We are not monitored, judged or victimised. We can approach our council for advice and will be given courtesy. Our councillors are chosen by us for many reasons which appeal to the majority.

    The council are people WE vote for and the system doesn’t allow for a council membership to be “stacked” so that people who have their own little “club or clique” can exercise privileges for themselves or power over others. It eliminates the ‘us and them’ problem which can happen in some small communities.

    Here we have an open relationship with council who call community meetings when they need to consult with us on important issues which will personally effect us. They are not out to “get us” or pull our plugs.

    The evolution from Progress to Council means that a community is run more professionally. We have a great deal of time to assess potential councillors before we vote. We can also nominate for council if we so wish.

    Incorporated Associations particularly in ‘the bush’ are notorious for being casual and matey. We are not immuned to this either. “But we are volunteers”, they cry. Hmm… Why volunteer for a thankless task? Why fight so hard to stay in ‘power’. Power over 100 people or so is not very glamourous.

    Incorporated Associations need a good overhaul right across the state, as Western Australia is experiencing at present. There seems to be a growing overlap of conflicting interests in many Incorporated Association or ‘small enterprises’ in South Australia. Obviously the government has overlooked or underlooked this problem. Maybe they don’t speak with the ‘people’ enough and only speak with progress.

    In answer to your question why don’t people contact the CDPA?

    I believe that we requested contact with “the editor or progress. However, as per your comment above, were told to mind our own beeswax.

    Perhaps those who contacted us had already assessed that this may be the dominant attitude particularly as noted, it was progress who unplugged the community members News Site. How would they contact you when the website along with contact details had vanished at the request of this progress association, severing their familiar form of contact?

    The News site is our only known or frequented contact with Copley.

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 12, 2008 @ 1:31 am

  11. [Quote]The council are people WE vote for and the system doesn’t allow for a council membership to be “stacked” so that people who have their own little “club or clique” can exercise privileges for themselves or power over others.[Quote]

    I find that comment very offensive. It is clear to me that certain people have given you their version of how they think the last AGM was run, just because they were soundly outvoted. Talk about sore losers!

    Comment by Rose — July 12, 2008 @ 9:33 am

  12. Re: Comment 11.
    Very sorry if you felt offended Rose. Of all the points we have been discussing here, it is interesting that you targetted that one.

    “Stacking committees” is a common practice to avoid equitable representation of communities. However, one could not know this would hit a nerve. It is only one example of how many of these things cannot happen in a District Council along with other practices that slip under the radar with current flaws appearing allowable when compiling Incorporated Association constitutions.

    This can hardly be made the major point when accountability was where we were going. Accountability not only to the membership or community members, but accountability to a higher body of which there doesn’t appear to be any – and that’s across the board, not necessarily in Copley.

    If progress in Copley has been taken to task over this already then it would be responsible to show more transparancy.

    You have mentioned that there are several versions of how the last AGM was run. And that there are some sore losers. How can this type of strong competition for power exist in such a small community? These are very interesting responses!

    This diversion still doesn’t explain to the community why the News service was unplugged, unceremoniously and ‘without notice’ by a progress association of any community and in this case Copleys.

    This is the only question enquirers are interested in.

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 12, 2008 @ 11:03 am

  13. i was there at that AGM. i have never seen so many non-Copley people in Copley in the town at the same time. they certainly weren’t all residents. asking around afterwards, it was obvious that someone had arranged for a bunch of non-resident miners from the district to be bussed in, given a free sausage roll, and told who to vote for.

    of course, stacking is a grand ol’ tradition of dodgy australian local poliitics, but if that wasn’t stacking then i am a horse’s ass.

    speaking of which, i guess if you havent paid for it, then you wont be able to take that picture of the horse’s ass down off the news.copley.org.au site then will you. a pity, because it looks kind of weird to have that big message about the site being taken down at request of CDPA and then, like i say, a picture of a horse’s ass.

    it’s funny, i never would have posted these comments on the old site, but now, well, let “free speech” reign.

    in fact, this is precisely what is so great about the internet: it makes truly free speech inevitable. no “buts” about it. it can’t just be shut down at the whim of authorities who don’t like this comment or that. and that is a very good thing.

    the real pity about all this though is that the original blog was the kindest, nicest, gentlest place run by people with genuine community spirit. any occasional comment left that was mildly critical of CDPA was so soft and gentle, that the idea of CDPA taking offence is just ridiculous, as ridiculous as a horse’s ass. And if there were problems, how easily they could have been resolved with a chat over a fence.

    why was the blog taken down? it’s easy. because some people in town don’t like the presence of a few alternative types. simple as that. and tragic as that. bringing in all their fancy ideas, like that internet thing, whatever it is. Blogs? what are they? quick let’s shut it down before people start using it to, i don’t know, start a tree planting group or something.

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 12, 2008 @ 2:57 pm

  14. Unfortunately, the changes made to the constitution in 2003, presented to the OCBA under a name change (which is not used in correspondence or on accounts to residents), has tied the hands of the community and it seems has also hamstrung the committee as well.
    Most of the members (approx. 90%) had no idea that changes had been made.

    Comment by di — July 12, 2008 @ 4:21 pm

  15. l’homme d’étoile, I don’t know who you are but I am guessing Simon. See, this is precisely what I mean about people posting under pseudonyms, because they haven’t got the you know whats to post under their true name. Anyway, whomever you are I think you should lay off the funny stuff, because I can’t see any picture of a horse’s ass on the previous site. You say you were at the AGM & it was obvious that a bunch of non resident miners were bussed in. The only non residents present (with the exception of two) were people who worked in the businesses of the town, & they had just as much right to be there as anyone else. Of the other two, one was brought in as an impartial witness to check all the votes, the second was the boss of the local copper mine. I have a list of the names of all the people who were present, so I know what I am talking about. As for giving them a “free sausage roll”, my recollection of the event was that the only food available was the watermelon that certain people were handing out. If they had paid more attention to what was being said at the meeting & what was tabled instead of being out in the kitchen cutting up said watermelon, then maybe they wouldn’t now be making statements like “an audited financial report was not tabled”. It most assuredly was. As for the previous blog only making “mildly critical” comments about the CDPA, your idea of mildly critical & that of the committee’s are vastly different. The sarcastic comments “thank you CDPA for allowing Perilya to bring the zinc train in” & thank you CDPA for selling our water to passers by” didn’t go down well with the committee, other townspeople, residents of Leigh Creek & family/friends that live interstate. I received numerous comments about the blog before it had the plug pulled on it, & they were all along the lines of “for God’s sake, why do you put up with this crap from them!” It’s not a matter of us not liking alternative types, it’s more a matter of the people who have lived here for many years not liking to be told how they need to change the town by relative newcomers.

    Comment by Rose — July 12, 2008 @ 8:02 pm

  16. Ahhh yes, I was wondering how long it would be before the constitution got dragged into this! The only changes that I can see that were made to the original constitution was the bit allowing non-residents who work in local businesses to vote. Why does that have everyone’s knickers in a twist? It’s all perfectly legal!

    Comment by Rose — July 12, 2008 @ 8:08 pm

  17. re: posts various
    1 “The only changes that I can see that were made to the original constitution was the BIT allowing non-residents who work in local businesses to vote”. Rose

    2 “it’s more a matter of the people who have lived here for many years not liking to be told how they need to change the town by relative newcomers”. Rose

    3 “thank you CDPA for allowing Perilya to bring the zinc train in” l’homme d’étoile

    These three paragraphs are intriguing!

    1: passed off as only “a bit” of a change to allow non residents to vote. Would these change to the constitution have been made at a community meeting, or at a committee mtg?

    These non residents who were bussed in to vote on behalf of the entire Copley Community work for businesses in the town. Are any of these business owners members of “progress”?

    If so was this disclosed to Corporate Affairs when changing the constitution? If not then there probably isn’t an alterior motive for the change in constitution and wouldn’t be classified as a possible conflict of interest.

    Why would you need more voters? Don’t these introduced voters already have somewhere to vote? Does Copley vote in their town? Does anyone from Copley work in their town and need to vote for their town?

    Apart from drawing a wage from these business owners, are these non residents of Copley avtively involved in the community in any other way. ie working bees, fund raising, planting trees, Tidy Town, or any other activity in their personal time?

    2: is confusing. If outsiders who live in other towns can vote and the committee (or longer term residents) don’t like the impovements or suggestions of newer residents actually living in the town and obviously paying for services, then their employees votes might in handy. This is all an assumption of course, however it could be viewed as more than a BIT of a change.

    Is it possible the actual residents may have been outvoted by people living in different towns and employed by the committee of progress or their likeminded friends? I say this because Rose has already divided the community into long term residents and relative newcomers who displease the long term residents.

    It doesn’t seem logical that if someone lives in a seperate town and pays for services there, why anyone would suggest that they vote in a town they have no personal alliance to except for the paypacket they draw from their employee.

    These strangers or employees of “the businesses” have the ability to vote for or against the possibility that “relative newcomers” may become members of progress.

    How did extra voters become necessary?

    It seems that Corporate Affairs could be a bit of a knockover. It wouldn’t be the first or the last time a goverment department has been overhauled.

    This is a most intriguing situation. But then there may be a perfectly innocent explanation for this most interesting change in the constitution. Was it implemented before or after “the relative newcomers” came?

    3 “thank you CDPA for allowing Perilya to bring the zinc train in”

    It was a long time before we discovered that the old fashioned undercoat our dads put on the walls of our house called “red lead”, was poisonous. Zinc and lead come out of the same mine. When you have a dust storm or a willy willy or the train roars through town uncovered…(Read that on the internet) you are also breathing lead. Oh, didn’t anyone tell you? Well I hope you don’t have small children and I hope as these nearby mines “progress” that you have the sense to at least do some research into the new air you may soon be breathing.

    Look up Mt. Isa and see the state of the nation’s health up there in their once beautiful community. It has indeed bought a lot of “money” into the town. It has also brought chronic ill-health, but once you start this machine, you can’t stop it. You will simply become a casualty of this lust for the mineral dollar.

    So here we’ll add in “alternatives,” as it may also mean that thinking people would prefer fresh air, to the ‘alternatives’ currently cashing up some of our towns. One day the “thank you” which appears today to be sarcastic, will be reversed.

    Nobody wants zinc or lead drifing into their tank water, homes or currently healthy bodies, not to mention all over the fresh vegetables and the chooks water.

    Food for thought anyone?

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 12, 2008 @ 10:58 pm

  18. Margaret, re your comments on the zinc train. For some odd reason certain local people see the COVERED zinc train which only shunts in our area once every couple of weeks as more of a threat than the UNCOVERED coal train which traverses right through the town dispensing copious quantities of dust from its 160 (give or take a few) wagons virtually every day. Also on occasion when there has been a breakdown, a number of these UNCOVERED wagons have been left sitting on the crossing loop for several days. However no-one kicks up a fuss about them. For God’s sake, this is a mining area – they knew that when they came here! I have seen first hand the effect this coal dust has on rainwater tanks, I have a water purifier with a ceramic filter in it that was black after only a few months of having nothing but rainwater put through it. So unless the other residents in the area have one of these water purifiers, then the rainwater they are drinking is contaminated with coal dust.
    As for the rest of your comments, I am not even going to touch them as I am tired of having the constitution constantly dragged up by people who think that it is an illegal document. It is perfectly legal, witnessed by a JP & it was lodged with the Department Of Consumer Affairs.

    Comment by Rose — July 12, 2008 @ 11:21 pm

  19. Oh & by the way, there were no non residents that were “bussed in to vote” as some idiot claims. The people that work in the local businesses (all THREE of them) arrived in their own vehicles.

    Comment by Rose — July 12, 2008 @ 11:29 pm

  20. Re: comment 18
    Thank you for responding Rose.. You are a bit of a night owl too.

    It was a comment for the general community actually.
    Yes it is Consumer Affairs. Always did get my affairs mixed up.

    I hope you take on board some of the positives rather than detecting opportunities to deny the input from others. None of us have all the answers. We can only share our experiences. None of these issues are new ones.

    Ignoring dust coming from mines so close to a town, doesn’t make it less harmful. This is why we research the mineral industry so we know what contaminant each mineral produces. It’s rather horrifying and would be frightening to print it.

    Copley is known as an historic area of significance and a tourist attraction. Of course we have this filthy mining all over the place at present. However with the current threat of a recession, the coal mines may be the first to go.

    We have many people come through here commenting on some of the places they have felt striking as they travel up the old track. Art was one of the attractions that we received the most comments about in Copley. I hope to be able to do a feature on it one day soon.

    Many people around here have friends and family right down to the Flinders Ranges. We have a mutual sharing of interests and news so it’s refreshing that we have been able to join together intermittently.

    As a newspaper I personally use the Copley sites for research as they are very well versed and up to date with the type of news we need to be aware of. In my opinion the site doesn’t have financial agenda it has a responsible agenda. it’s quite rare. I would be pleased if I could claim this amount of credit.

    People come to the outback to see “different” and many of us are losing our unique appeal as progress catches up with us and turns us into something else. We need always to be prepared for the unexpected and never take anything for granted. Generally none of us like change, however sometimes change can be our friend and not what we feared it to be. Obviously it depends on the type of change.

    This website is great isn’t it?

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 13, 2008 @ 12:08 am

  21. Dear Rose,

    RE: “Oh & by the way, there were no non residents that were “bussed in to vote” as some idiot claims. The people that work in the local businesses (all THREE of them) arrived in their own vehicles”.

    Apart from the fact they are still non residents – the below comment is defamatory. I hope for the sake of peace in Copley they haven’t given the webmaster their correct name (as is usually required for non de plumes).

    Definition of Idiot: A person of subnormal intelligence

    Only a doctor can determine and publish this without liability.
    You may need to request it be removed.

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 13, 2008 @ 12:22 am

  22. Margaret, for once I do agree. I shouldn’t have used that word, & I do apologise. Maybe the newseditor could substitute the words “as someone claimed”? I am afraid that when I am angry (as well as tired) I tend to say the first thing that comes to mind. I have always been known to call a spade a spade & not an excavating implement! This is the only forum that I post on besides an aviation one (because I work in the aviation industry), & that one gives you the opportunity to edit your posts. Handy, when you engage the mouth before putting the brain in gear! ;) I should point out to you that I live over the same side of town as di, Nigel, & newseditor – in fact di is my next door neighbour. Despite their different ideas & despite what they may think, I love & respect them all dearly. I hope that despite what I have said here that di isn’t cowering inside, waiting for the incoming missiles to hit her house! ;) If any missiles do hit her, they will probably only be pieces of rose bush when I prune them – then she can gather them up & plant them! :)

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 8:19 am

  23. Yibbidy Yibbiddy!

    Rose says:
    “I received numerous comments about the blog before it had the plug pulled on it, & they were all along the lines of “for God’s sake, why do you put up with this crap from them!” It’s not a matter of us not liking alternative types, it’s more a matter of the people who have lived here for many years not liking to be told how they need to change the town by relative newcomers.”

    Newcomers!! To the planet, to Australia, to the outback…yowsa yowsa yowsa…all the dirty linen is out now! Me..ive only been on the planet a few years but my family has been in the country since 1826 and in the region since 1860…they would be rolling in their graves with much laughter and then horror!!!

    By the way they were miners and im sure they would be offended by the attacks occuring on people in this reason simply for living and voicing opinion…for gods sake rose we live in Australia not China as someone has already quoted…

    I am almost choked on my cornflakes when I read the latest attack on Simon (amazing detective work – l’homme d’étoile + France = Simon :) and now the right of people to BE here!!!

    Comment by Nigel — July 13, 2008 @ 10:07 am

  24. Yes Nigel, the dirty linen is out now & perhaps it’s about time. You clearly don’t understand the dynamics of this town or area, whereas I do. I have lived in this area for 25 years, & I know that it takes a VERY long time to be considered a local. In fact, I would say I am only just being considered a local now. You really do have to “earn your stripes” to be accepted here! Some of my ancestors lived in & around this area too, my paternal grandfather used to drive the old steam trains through here & my father was born at Quorn. Plus my maternal grandmother was married & lived at Hergott Springs, which of course we now know as Marree. And one of Eric’s uncles used to be a powder monkey at the coal mine. But all that means nothing to people here, until you yourself prove your worth.
    As for the “attack” on Simon, I have already apologised for the comment I made & I hope that the newseditor can either amend it or if not then remove the entire post. But I really do wish people would get their facts straight before they post such nonsense as “a bunch of non resident miners was bussed in”. Comments like that as well as some of the other silly comments made recently do nothing to raise the credibility rating of the people that made them, & serves only to divide the town even more.

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 10:55 am

  25. Dear Rose,

    I notice Di is has posted some comments. I can’t quite see how she fits into the comment in question. Why would anyone want to harm her because of your comments.

    The way it reads is that you were targetting someone you guessed as “Simon” to be the idiot.

    I personally don’t need an apology. Beewax is not insulting to me. It’s rather perceptive actually as I’m a registered Bee Keeper and would probably fit right into Copley if it wasn’t for the obvious infighting about the differences. Imagine if people in Copley had access to pure unprocessed honey! Or if one flew over a committee member’s fence and pollinated their vegies causing an influx of fresh vegies into the town. What castastophe could we be looking at? This is how it currently appears!

    Over here we harnass our differences and make positives out of them. Everyone has their own social club and we all enjoy to visit each other particularly to experience the wonderful differences.

    The purpose of this dialogue is simply because I cannot travel down there this week to discuss as has been requested by more enquirers than have been mentioned, in order to satisfy people who feel concerned that they haven’t been able to communicate with Copley or access the News site, whoever it belongs to. Next edition people will be looking for a response and hopefully news of a resolution.

    Because most if not all of the questions presented have not been answered, we will need to get permission from the Web master to use whatever material we have here to try and covey the state of the nation in Copley to the curious public.

    Perhaps by Wednesday a representative of Copley can present us with a Media Release that the whole community is happy with to: cptimes@ozemail.com.au. For this you might need to conduct a town meeting in order to show that democracy is beginning to prevail in Copley and we are not looking down the barrell of a litigation problem.

    Perhaps the “relative newcomers” may surprise you with their reasonableness in order to preserve their town image and create an example how we can all live together in harmony.

    In any case be assured we will be dedicating a full page to Copley.

    with kind regards
    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 13, 2008 @ 11:08 am

  26. Re: latest posts

    You guys are quick. We can see how this news site is important. At least we are discussing. As an interested obvserver, I’m not sure an apology will quite cut it here.

    We have now established that Rose has correctly guessed Simon as the “idiot”. It seems Simon has been identified as the writer of the post referred to.

    Simon, Rose is at your mercy here and in her own way is seeking a reprieve, or to be exculpated from what could become a messy situation. Are you prepared to publicly forgive Rose and absolve her of her mistake in making this statement?

    Rose, you may have to concede that their is no legal ownership or rights attached to the longevity of your stay in Copley. You may find that we are all in reality subservient to the much longer aboriginal courtesy of allowing us all to be here as guests. Don’t tell me that no-one has ever questioned why signatures are still to this day required from aboriginal people in order to use their land? Hmm.. one of the most volatile subjects at present.

    Meant to mention the issue with a JP witnessing a document. That in itself does not legalise the contents. The JP is not entitled to read the document. Only witness that the right person signed it.

    It is surprising that the rotation in office system is not used more in Committees. It gives everyone the opportunity to find out what it’s like to be responsible for a community or an organisation. It’s a growing experience and each year the Chairperson changes. Before you know it, it’s your turn again.

    If perchance circumstances changed and it became inconvenient for current committee members to reside in Copley, then what?

    Life would go on wouldn’t it. Rose in all fairness, Simon or the community are quite within their rights to demand your resignation.

    Why don’t we stop point scoring and sit down and discuss this as mature adults with respect for each other and see just how well everyone can really work together individually and collectively. Yes, take Di a nice bunch of your lovely roses too.

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 13, 2008 @ 11:58 am

  27. Margaret, I would certainly welcome the pure unprocessed honey however probably not the bees, as I am allergic to bee stings. I am afraid it will not be possible for a representative of the CDPA to provide you with a media release, we only have committee meetings once a month & as for a town meeting to discuss this issue sorry, but it’s not going to happen. It is difficult enough as it is now for us to organise normal committee meetings let alone anything else. We all have our work, plus there are family issues going on in some folks’ lives at the moment as well as ill health. And as was demonstrated at a water meeting we held on the 28th of June, certain people chose to misrepresent the facts anyway. As I said to Nigel, all these things serve to do is divide the town even further.
    As far as litigation goes, I would be very careful about printing anything from this thread if I were you, lest it turns around & bites you on the proverbial. The old site was taken down on or abot the 27th of June, & this one was up & running less than 48 hours later with a link to it being shown on the old site. So your readers/enquirers have no excuse that they couldn’t access the site. If you still wish a formal letter of explanation as to why the site was removed/closed down, then I suggest you write to the CDPA. Address it to The Secretary, CDPA, P.O. Box 6139, Copley 5732. I promise you won’t be told to “mind your own beeswax!” ;)

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 12:13 pm

  28. Ahhh, I feel a soap opera (or cartoon) coming on. Will Rose apologise to Simon? Will Simon accept her apology & forgive her? Will they get married & live happily ever after? Well Rose has apologised, whether Simon accepts that apology & forgives her remains to be seen. As for the last bit – no way! ;)

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 1:34 pm

  29. Margaret, I’m not sure what you mean by your comment about there being no legal ownership or rights attached to the longevity of my stay in Copley. As I said before I have lived in the area for the last 25 years. We (myself & my husband) bought our house here about 14 years ago, & it’s highly unlikely that we will ever move. I don’t hold with the idea that the aboriginals are the original “owners of the land” as they try to claim. Original occupants perhaps (although I have my doubts about that), but they didn’t create the land nor buy it from anyone so therefore they do not own it.

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 2:01 pm

  30. Re: comment: “As far as litigation goes, I would be very careful about printing anything from this thread if I were you, lest it turns around & bites you on the proverbial”. Rose

    Hmm inappropriately threatening Rose! Weren’t we discussing Simon and HIS rights?

    I noted that you mentioned that progress did not sponsor this website. You may find that anything on a public domain is fair game and public property, particularly when signed. You yourself have already given permission for the world to read this. Anyone can quote from here. I personally would prefer to be polite and discuss with the webmaster in order not to usurp our cousins in Copley who have done such a great job in promoting your town and our region in the best possible way.

    Noone suggested you should call Simon an idiot. You even reinforced credit for it in your following post.

    As I do not know Simon and he has not written or responded to my posts, I have no association with this issue. I have merely drawn your attention to the possiblity that you could request it be removed before it bites you on the proverbial. However it is still there for the world to download, reprint and quote from at their leisure, pleasure or displeasure. Sometimes one doesn’t recognise a good tip when they see it. Again, too busy trying to shoot the messenger.

    Surely this CDPA can’t have so many benefits that it deserves such a strong defense to maintain existence under this regime.

    Right now everyone reading your post could be questioning whether or not Simon is a person of subnormal or even questionable intelligence. How does Simon feel being cast off as an idiot by someone he may need to discuss community issues with knowing she considers him to be somewhat retarded?

    Your fellow members of CDPA should also be aware that your responses to progress question posted here, are also on their behalf, whether they like it or not and therefore can all be held personally liable for your comments. Possibly you have insurance which would cover “foot and mouth disease”.

    I would be quickly disassociating myself from an organisation who could place me in such a precarious position, by way of an immediate public notice. And I would definitely be inviting Simon around for herbal tea and wholemeal scones.

    You seem to have avoided all reasonable discussion and retorted defensively, when we could already have begun resolving this very public discussion/concern on how a progress association thinks it has the power to silence it’s own community, (without notice).

    I don’t think you have yet grasped how serious this really is with many days to rectify what appears to be bullying, powermongering, victimising, ostracising, publicly humiliating the members of a community you are in reality, accountable to.

    I found this whole issue in a Sydney newspaper yesterday with huge headlines. They had taken the page from our newspaper and posted it. We cannot complain especially when we put it in a public place with a signature on it, as you have done here Rose.

    As for writing a letter to your post box, you may not have noticed, but I have already written an open letter. This is suffcient. How many letters do you need?

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 13, 2008 @ 2:03 pm

  31. Dear Webmaster

    Re: “And I would definitely be inviting Simon around for herbal tea and wholemeal scones”.

    I would like to remove this part of my previous post.

    Firstly I apologise to Simon.
    I do apologise and did not mean to imply that you could be pacified with tea and scones. It was not my intention to further reinforce simplicity of your intellect. I simply conjured visions which……hmm (I am digging a bigger ditch here)
    Please acccept my apology.

    Webmaster: If this cannot be removed I will take responsibility.

    Margaret Mackay

    It was a careless statement

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 13, 2008 @ 2:17 pm

  32. Margaret, this discussion is going nowhere fast & I really can’t see any point in continuing. The comments I have made on here are my opinion & mine alone as a member of the community, not as a member of the CDPA. As far as I’m concerned I have said my piece, & it’s a case of “subject closed”.
    And unless Simon wants to fly back from France, then I’m afraid the herbal tea & scones isn’t going to happen.

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 2:33 pm

  33. The editor is the only person who can edit the posts and she’s planting more trees in the street. Sorry Marg, but I doubt that any sanitisation of the threads will occur as its a ‘free speech zone’ and all parties need to account for their comments…that said im not the editor…the email tray is filling up again from people wanting to know whats going on…I cant reply to them all so people have to make their own judgement about the implications of shutting down free speech…I guess all the lessons are contained in our worlds history. I cant comment any further on this thread. The Chocolate Factory is closed down for the time being…I am going to plant a tree as well and pray for world peace. :roll:

    Comment by Nigel — July 13, 2008 @ 3:00 pm

  34. “I hope that despite what I have said here that di isn’t cowering inside, waiting for the incoming missiles to hit her house! ;) If any missiles do hit her, they will probably only be pieces of rose bush when I prune them – then she can gather them up & plant them! :)”
    Actually, I was sitting on my front porch in the sun, knitting furiously for the winter fair which is fast approaching. One of the many community endeavours conceived and organised by the people who are often on my front porch chatting. Most of these people are ‘newcomers’ who have injected into a tired and down-trodden community. Some have spent the last 20-30 years here, and have put enormous amounts of energy into this community.
    The supposed ‘newcomers’ have begun projects like Greening Copley, sourced funding and developed the Copley Art Space, supported the Building Healthy Communities Project, clean up the town and the commons, hold workshops for the kids, assist artists, and generally spread happiness and gentleness into a place surrounded by mining. Heaven forbid!!!!

    Developing a newsletter which focussed on the town, its people, the wider community and issues which affect them, was my part. I took this on as a volunteer after researching a community need.
    I was supported financially for production costs, by funding from OACDT through CDPA from November 2006.
    In this role as editor, I have seen amazing changes in some of the people who have loved getting their photos in the newsletter. They were also informed when workshops were on, or trips, I covered the cricket, and also helped the town fight a mining company from stockpiling zinc right in the town. The people have been able to write letters to the editor, put in jokes, recipes, events etc.
    Then, in April last year, everything changed. The funding for the newsletter, paid through CDPA, was not available. This was done without consultation. Even to this day, I have not received any reason for this decision.
    I had begun asking questions though. Questions the community members had been discussing in workshops, in the pub, at fireside chats. Their voice was not heard by the CDPA committee members. Issues concerning infrastructure, governance, sacred sites issues and mining, and water issues (including no one getting water bills for nine months). All normal avenues had been exhausted.
    I left for a few months to deal with family matters and Simon took over, for which I was so grateful. He could tell you what happened then. After problems with CDPA, he passed it back to me.
    So, the newsletter continues, in spite of all the machinations to stop it. For a year, I paid for the newsletter from advertising and donations and out of my pension. The businesses which had benefited from my hours, weeks of research and letters to MP’s to stop the stockpiling, did not advertise in this community newsletter. The CDPA did not communicate with their members through the newsletter. There was no support from them.
    The Aroona Aboriginal Council donated towards it and the community supported it. I had become involved in the Copley History Group through a friend. When the Copley History Group became aware of this plight, they decided to support it financially.
    OACDT funding was still available, but no mechanism was put into place for my access to that funding. No communication whatsoever!! The history group has had to organise an ABN to get reimbursed, now. This is still an ongoing problem, attempting to be reimbursed for costs of production of the newsletter.

    Comment by di — July 13, 2008 @ 5:49 pm

  35. [Quote] Then, in April last year, everything changed. The funding for the newsletter, paid through CDPA, was not available. This was done without consultation. Even to this day, I have not received any reason for this decision. [Quote]

    Di, please tell the truth. You were told the reason why, & you know it. It was your decision to not reapply for the position, which you were invited to do.

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 6:06 pm

  36. hello

    simon here

    just checking back in to say: Rose: I accept your apology.

    no harm done. sticks and stones etc.

    may harmony prevail in this community.

    play nicely everyone.

    au revoir

    Simon

    PS; im always up for herbal tea and scones. all invitations graciously accepted.

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 13, 2008 @ 6:46 pm

  37. Thank you for being so gracious Simon! If you do come back here (& I’m sure you will one day), then we will do the herbal tea & scones. Despite what you guys might think, I really do respect your rights to be “different”. The saying goes that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks – well this old dog would be more than happy to learn a few sustainable gardening tips if nothing else. Last time I looked my compost seemed to be doing well, so hopefully by the time spring comes it will be nice & rich & ready to use!

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

  38. I never thought you were simple simon, on the contrary quite complex, but we are looking forward to seeing you here again, your wisdom and humour (ouch) is sorely missed. As for Rose’s comments, Di makes some amazing fruit cakes but I dont want to inflame things further as I have not tasted your scones Rose??…and we have a film called ‘The Dog Whisperer” which defies the illusion and myth that as you quote ‘ you cant teach an old dog new tricks’…the hippy alternatives that have rocked up on the doorstep have good intentions for the whole community (including business)..but there is an enormous paradigm shift occuring on the planet…(guess everyone has noticed!)…this thread is history making but at the end of the day, despite misunderstandings (grrrr!!!)…I think at the end of the day we all have the same objectives…now…finally..can everyone appreciate my jokes and return the everlasting gob stoppers, go home, and get some SLEEP!!!!

    Comment by Nigel — July 13, 2008 @ 9:05 pm

  39. I did say, April last year….2007 Rose.

    Comment by di — July 13, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

  40. [Quote] I did say, April last year….2007 Rose. [Quote]

    Yes, now that I re-read it I can see that you did. Once more I apologise! However if that is the case, then it was obviously during the tenure of the previous committee, & I believe that in all fairness a new committee should not be blamed for the actions of their predecessors.

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 10:55 pm

  41. Sleep well Nigel!

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 10:57 pm

  42. P.S. It’s not Simple Simon, it’s Simon (S)miles! :)

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

  43. oh and i see i missed another apology!

    margaret: I accept!

    gee, i’m coming over all goose-bumply at all the lerv…

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 14, 2008 @ 12:10 am

  44. Dear Newseditor – Di

    Out of courtesy, I would like to formally request your blessing in using your post no: 34 or extracts to answer queries from our readers in the next edition of the Coober Pedy Regional Times.

    It seems that we cannot receive a formal letter from CDPA until after they see fit to hold a special meeting or an ordinary meeting. In the absence of a formal response I see much material here which paints a fairly general picture of events leading up to the blackout of the news site.

    If you as the news editor and owner of the contents have any objection to us quoting from this material, please notify me by 5pm Wednesday this week.

    If anyone has anything further to add, please post it here or email: cptimes@ozemail.com.au

    I would like to compliment the community on what appears here as a fabulous forum for problem solving. Let’s hope it stays fresh and that you all do live happily ever after.

    kind regards,
    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 14, 2008 @ 4:32 am

  45. Er sorry, but Di is not the newseditor.

    Comment by Rose — July 14, 2008 @ 7:20 am

  46. I am the editor of the newsletter Margaret, that is all. You are quite welcome to use my comments concerning the newsletter and its very basic aims. I am continuing to put this newsletter out for the community, with their support. I can forward letters of support from quite a few community members. I have received many emails from people who now download the newsletter from this site, rather than a paper version. Arkaroola now prints them out in colour for their visitors.
    I love the colour version, for it highlights the amazing place we live in, its incredible clouds, its people and animals. The Flinders ranges and our special surrounding landscape gives us a wonderful gift of changing hues throughout the day. I would dearly love for all of this angst to be over and get on with drawing and painting.

    Comment by di — July 14, 2008 @ 10:31 am

  47. Margaret, the Copley Community News site is in the public information domain but thankyou for your courtesy in asking permission of the author of the post.

    – News Editor

    Comment by newseditor — July 14, 2008 @ 10:59 am

  48. Whats the conclusion everyone? The CDPA used its power outside the scope of its role to close the site. No one needs to get nasty, it appears that we dont have a legitimate CDPA so maybe its best if its dissolved for temporary community harmony while ‘all things are considered’ and the whole history/constitution/accounts are reviewed by the government. We all must by now agree on the right of free speech and that this was a major err on the part of the CDPA who authorised it. While Rose has generously highlighted that newcomers are treated differently and apologised, this is not a formal explanation of what has occured from the CDPA, even though Rose is currently secretary (if she did’nt resign). Lets all trust that the new constitution and mechanisms of governance are open, transparent and rigourous enough that this sorry saga is not repeated again. I am sure everyone in town deserves the right to express opinion and be given equal respect in town.

    Comment by Nigel — July 14, 2008 @ 11:35 am

  49. No Nigel, I haven’t resigned & I don’t intend to. And you can ask for the CDPA to be dissolved, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.

    Comment by Rose — July 14, 2008 @ 12:31 pm

  50. Temporary community harmony? Nigel, I hope you & your friends have a good supply of flak jackets & helmets, because you’re sure as hell gonna need ‘em!

    Comment by Ron — July 14, 2008 @ 3:36 pm

  51. Regarding Post 50

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A flak jacket or flak vest (or flack jacket) is a form of protective clothing designed to provide protection from shrapnel and other indirect low velocity projectiles. Today it frequently refers to bulletproof vests, particularly Type III and above which have added steel, titanium, ceramic or polyethylene plates which can withstand high-powered rounds such as from rifles.

    I logged on here for a different reason, but sorry Ron, this cannot be mistaken for anything but a personal threat, more resembling a death threat, not just on the person you have referred to “Nigel”, but to anyone and everyone who has contributed to this free-speech forum.

    There appears to be more at stake here than meets the eye. Does the intimidation of this community have no boundaries?
    This post will be forwarded to the authorities.

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 14, 2008 @ 4:17 pm

  52. Regarding post 50

    The threat to contributors on this forum has been
    reported to the appropriate authorities.

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 14, 2008 @ 5:38 pm

  53. Oh for heaven’s sake – stop being so damn melodramatic! Didn’t you just say it’s supposed to be a free speech forum? That is a common saying, & I certainly don’t see it as a threat. And no I’m not “Ron”, nor do I know who he/she is.

    Comment by Rose — July 14, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

  54. Nigel, if you want a dissolution of the CDPA then I suggest you put it in writing & address the letter to The Public Officer.

    Comment by Rose — July 14, 2008 @ 6:20 pm

  55. Rose,

    OK, I get it now:

    This:

    “thank you CDPA for allowing Perilya to bring the zinc train in” & thank you CDPA for selling our water to passers by”

    is utterly unacceptable and such an offence to free speech that the blog was shut down.

    but this:

    “I hope you & your friends have a good supply of flak jackets & helmets, because you’re sure as hell gonna need ‘em!”

    is just a “common saying” and acceptable discourse.

    Thank you for making it all so clear.

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 14, 2008 @ 7:07 pm

  56. Simon, so I suppose you are now going to drag the comment I made about hoping Di wasn’t cowering inside waiting or the incoming missiles to hit her house into this & say I was threatening to harm her? Why so defensive all of a sudden? And here I was thinking you lot had a sense of humour – apparently not.

    Comment by Rose — July 14, 2008 @ 7:34 pm

  57. Rose

    i wish you well. i wish everybody well. it makes me sad to see what this has all come to. i hope the blog can go back to composting tips and pictures of lambs. this is my last post. see you for tea and scones one day.

    Simon

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 14, 2008 @ 7:49 pm

  58. To Margaret Mackay and others,
    Re my above post which was deemed offensive; I wish to unreservedly apologise for the remarks and wish to emphasise that no offence or malice was intended!
    I actually made this post at the request of another person who is now somewhat upset at the furore it has generated. I am extremely embarrassed that this has happened and have since informed the person concerned that in future I will not be posting for them.
    Once again, my apologies and assurance that no malice is or was intended.
    Ron

    Comment by Ron — July 14, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

  59. ‘Tis past the wiTcHinG hoUr & I aM tUrnInG PumpKin, But,
    I gOt tO reAd tHiS DeBaTe….

    Go In PeaCe aNd DoN’t ForGeT tO pLaNt sOme TreEs….

    Comment by KiCkInG BiRd — July 15, 2008 @ 2:00 am

  60. Re: Post 50

    Dear “Ron”? Firstly Rose insulted Simon and apologised to Margaret.

    Then “Ron”? threatened Nigel and friends and he/she? also apologised to Margaret.

    Surely these mistakes are nothing more than a coincidence!

    However Rose then wrote and defended “Ron’s” remarks and at the same time insisted she didn’t even know him.

    Post 53: “And no I’m not “Ron”, nor do I know who he/she is.” Rose

    I’m having trouble finding a post where anyone suggested that Rose knew Ron and that Ron may be a he or perhaps a she. Has the site been edited?

    Margaret is not one of Nigel’s friends and it should seem obvious that she does not require the apology. Pehaps being a “relative newcomer” to the website it could put Margaret into that “outer circle”.

    We were all cautioned by the newseditor though, that we were responsible for our comments here.

    “Ron” do you have a Sirname as I do? Or is Ron, as Rose descrbed in Comment 15, a pseudonym?

    Quote: ” See, this is precisely what I mean about people posting under pseudonyms, because they haven’t got the you know whats to post under their true name”. – Rose

    It is difficult to address or defend oneself when “threatened” by a pseudonym.

    It has gone so very quiet here that I’m wondering if all is well in Copley. With such a comment coming out of left field it seems to have silenced Copley once again.

    “Ron”?, perhaps now that you say your friend has calmed down, you may be able to explain what the outburst was in reference to. Hopefully you will be respectul enough to supply your full name. Simon identified himself to Rose. Isn’t that correct Rose? And you always use your own name, don’t you Rose?

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 16, 2008 @ 12:22 am

  61. Hi there all, Wow, one week-end away and it hits the fan!
    Glad you decided to ask such pertinent questions Margaret –
    many blessings to you.
    Maybe the silence has something to do with the ABC radio
    interview with Di – our Newletter editor and CDPA PR person
    Maxine yesterday – now this you need to get a transcript of and check out. Hmm, I could be mistaken, but I think I heard a porky
    or two!!
    Margaret sure you wouldn’t like to move to Copley and stand
    in our next AGM?
    Enlightenment to all, cheers gina

    Comment by gina — July 16, 2008 @ 4:11 pm

  62. Margaret – do you have a link to the Sydney newspaper where I
    could read the article? Thank you.
    [pure honey - sounds blissful! Got any to send down for our Winter Fair?]
    cheers
    gina

    Comment by gina — July 16, 2008 @ 4:21 pm

  63. l’homme d’étoile,
    I SeE It toO!!!

    Comment by KiCkInG BiRd — July 16, 2008 @ 4:33 pm

  64. l’homme d’étoile, #13
    I SeE It toO!!! neIghhhhhhhhhhhhh…..

    Comment by KiCkInG BiRd — July 16, 2008 @ 4:37 pm

  65. Even Blind Freddy can see it! :x:

    ABC Country Hour – Local newsletter offline

    By Lorna Perry

    Tuesday, 15/07/2008

    A battle of words has been raging in the small mining town of Copley about 5 kilometres north of Leigh Creek in the far north of South Australia.

    A locally produced newsletter that’s been available on the internet has lost it’s support from the local Progress Association.

    Up until a few weeks ago the link to the newsletter was only available through the Association’s website. It’s since been removed. Editor of the Copley Newsletter Di Starick explains where it all began.

    “At first it was very good. They were supporting it. I took the letter first to the Chairman. He was the first to read it and thoroughly enjoyed it.”

    Relationships have since soured, but Di says she wasn’t informed that the link to newsletter had been removed from the website.

    “There was no dialogue. The news editor of the website, who is also a volunteer like myself, was told through the web master that the decision had been made to pull the blog.” she says.

    “My concern is that voice, that way for people to communicate has been shut off without consultation.”

    The Copley Progress Association cites funding cuts as one of the reasons why the newsletter can no longer be supported by the group. Maxine Hawking says the claim there was no correspondence between the Association and the newsletter is not true.

    “We informed them in writing that the grant money had ceased. We gave them two months to submit tax invoices of amounts outstanding.” she says.

    “They knew the website was closing down and they would have no access to it.”

    In this report: Di Starick, editor, Copley Newsletter; Maxine Hawking, Copley Progress Association

    Comment by Nigel — July 16, 2008 @ 7:56 pm

  66. interesting comment from Maxine implying the decision to pull the plug on the website was made at least two months prior to June 30. That would imply the decision was made say mid-April.

    At that stage the blog had barely been going two months!

    i checked back in to see what was happening on the blog in that second half of April that must have resulted in the decision to shut it down. there amidst the compost recipes and garden working bee community meal shout-outs were a couple of articles about marathon dumping waste in plastic bags at arkaroola. remember that?

    so this is what was active on the blog when the local Progress Association made a decision to ensure that they weren’t funding this kind of thing.

    interesting also that this stunning internet media strategy was apparently put in place in mid april, yet here we are, into the second half of july and the old site still has that white screen and default font, making it the absolute most embarrasing website on the planet right now. we all look like you know whats that was my point and my joke. so this means, as Rose has told us, that they still haven’t paid the bill anyway! so noven has been hosting the site since the start of the year on his own nickel!

    for goodness sake and sins against typography will you please pay the bill already and change what is displayed there?

    its an absolute doozy folks, and no i dont think theres a french word for that.

    go cadell evans though and watch carefully and you might see me in the crowd cheering him on tomorrow night.

    so thats when the decision was made.

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 16, 2008 @ 10:12 pm

  67. and i’m not quite done here yet either because there is something else which needs to be said

    what has got completely lost in this debacle has been what an incredibly good website this is. this is as good as it gets folks. this is exactly what the internet is all about and should be about. we are a community in a highly disadvantaged position when it comes to ability to communicate with the outside world. the internet is made for people living where we live. it empowers us like nothing since the stump jump plough.

    and annemarree take on the blog format has been the just a treat. its all the things you want in a website. amusing. entertaining. makes you think a bit. but not too much. some visual stimulation. community spirit. all wrapped up in a package which is as well designed and presented as you could want. all done out of her own generosity of time and energy and creativity.

    i mean: what’s not to like?

    so i just want to publically say well done to annemarree for such a great community service and an excellent website. and now, why dont we get back to compost and campoven roasts?

    its over people. the Copley War of Words of 2008 is over. Everyone got to have their say. The air is clear. The blog is up and running and thriving. No one died. Some excellent jokes were made. Now, haven’t we all got actual lives to lead? Turn the pc off and get outside!

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 16, 2008 @ 10:29 pm

  68. I had a lovely day today l’homme and did get outside to the old schoolhouse. The wonderful people who have come up here to help get the pottery shed up, have had a delay in delivery of the actual shed, so the wives got together and set up a fabric painting workshop.
    It was really great to create something beautiful with lovely people, both the volunteer ladies and my friends here in Copley.
    I did go into Leigh creek where the original 1908 Talbot that travelled from Adelaide to Darwin was on display. They will be there for a few days for all to see. The touch-screen display of photographs is really amazing. Just imagining how difficult that trip must have been for Harry Dutton and Murray Aunger in an open vehicle defies the 4×4’s which were lined up in Leigh Creek today. Actually, this old car probably did better than many of those new 4×4’s could do today. I will be doing a story on this journey in the Copley Newsletter including follow-up as the National Motor Museum display follows that same route.
    “Off The Beaten Track, a journey across a nation” can be followed online at http://www.history.sa.gov.au where a blog is also available to communicate with them along the way.

    Comment by di — July 16, 2008 @ 11:21 pm

  69. Oh, there you all are. Back again.
    What fun.
    Thank you Gina, yes I’d love to nominated for the Copley Progress Association Committee. Guess the qualifications are all there.
    “Relative newcomer”. Working for Copley already.
    Just send the bus please as my car is a little ill at present.
    I guess it will be soon as the financial year has passed.
    I hope the audit has been done. First things first.
    I would dearly like to be President or Chairperson though, and I am very naughty at delegating so we could do it over the net.
    Will start sending down beehives. Only have 40, so if everyone could take a couple each please, we’ll have a variety of nice honey and roadside sales.

    cheers and good to see everyone happy once again.

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 17, 2008 @ 11:29 pm

  70. No worries Margaret, going on last years AGM anything is happen!! We could bring in cardboard cut outs, seems anything
    is possible.
    I agree with you, an audit is the way to go as well as a review of the constitution and a code of conduct for meetings (essential), that is of course if there will be any meetings….
    I heard one member of our CDPA discussing what has occured
    as being “a hiccup”, the mind bogles!!! I do wonder if this poor form will continue?
    The History Group will have to do some fund raising to keep
    the Newsletter running, it is madness, as the CDPA have still not produced one and the Community package to fund local publications is unused. How it has become possible for just a
    few folk to use their positions in the CDPA to decide what the
    community & district can and can’t have only makes me shake my head at the shame of it. Yep, I can definately see the tail end of the horse….
    gina

    Comment by gina — July 18, 2008 @ 8:09 pm

  71. RE: Comment 50

    Temporary community harmony? Nigel, I hope you & your friends have a good supply of flak jackets & helmets, because you’re sure as hell gonna need ‘em!

    Comment by Ron — July 14, 2008 @ 3:36 pm

    ** Enquirers watching this thread can’t quite understand how this appears to have been flicked off a joke, or flicked off at all. It is concerning that some areas in the outback may be enjoying a sense of lawlessness. There appears to be no further references to this. Research does not indicate that members of the police force even in isolated community have yet been elevated to judicial status.

    Out of curiosity and as a contributor to this thread, what was the outcome here? Is everyone able to take off their flack jackets yet? A comment that stopped this comunity in it’s tracks! Despite there may be reason to believe it could have been posted as an intimidation measure and certainly had that effect. There doesn’t appear to be an official explanation yet which might assist in putting community members at ease. Ron’s comment is unacceptable as we still can’t put a face to him or his friendly intimidator.

    Open forum and free speech should include honesty.
    The below material is intended to be helpful and educational.
    Reference material below:
    Cyber crime is not included in this post.

    Stalking & Intimidation

    Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm is an offence which often leads to Apprehended Violence Orders (“AVOs”) to protect a person from violence or the fear of violence. Aside from continuously following someone, a common example of stalking in a domestic situation is obsessive behaviour like constant telephone calls or sending disturbing, unsolicited gifts or messages.

    The Law – Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm

    Section 13 of the Crimes (Domestic and Personal Violence) Act 2007 provides that it is an offence to stalk or intimidate another person with intent to cause to cause physical or mental harm

    A person who stalks or intimidates another person with the intention of causing the person to fear physical or mental harm is liable to imprisonment for 5 years, or to a fine of 50 penalty units, or both.

    Section 8 of the Act says that stalking includes:

    he following of a person about or the watching or frequenting of the vicinity of, or an approach to, a person’s place of residence, business or work or any place that a person frequents for the purposes of any social or leisure activity.

    Section 7 of the Act says that initimidation includes:

    (a) conduct amounting to harassment or molestation, or

    (b) the making of repeated telephone calls, or

    (c) any conduct that causes a reasonable apprehension of injury to a person or to a person with whom he or she has a domestic relationship, or of violence or damage to any person or property.

    Maximum Penalty – Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm

    The Maximum penalty for the offence of Intimidation and Stalking is a fine of $5,500.00 and/or 5 years imprisonment.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 19, 2008 @ 1:14 pm

  72. As an interesting side note thanks to the marvels of technology the exact person/ IP address and web trail has exactly pin-pointed the offender. The ‘comment 50′ has also been agreed by definition as a ‘death threat’ by the AFP. Thanks marg, Community News, and all who have contributed to this thread which has become a solid document of the truth which always prevails :)

    Comment by Nigel — July 19, 2008 @ 2:27 pm

  73. [Quote] has also been agreed by definition as a ‘death threat’ by the AFP. Thanks marg, Community News, and all who have contributed to this thread which has become a solid document of the truth which always prevails Thanks marg, Community News, and all who have contributed to this thread which has become a solid document of the truth which always prevails [Quote]

    You know something Nigel? I find that comment very strange coming from you. After all, I distinctly remember you yourself issuing death threats against Perilya workers once. And that was at a community meeting, with other witnesses present. Some people in this town have long memories, & that is something that will never be forgotten.

    Comment by Rose — July 19, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

  74. Interesting Rose, I only ever attended one Perilya meeting in Copley and as a matter of professional discourse I recorded the meeting…and also…you were not there???? :roll:

    is this Rose speaking…or…someone else? I consider ‘comment 73′ to be obviously false and defamatory and so will simply pass this as well on to the appropriate authorities. A ‘Death threat’ followed by this?? If there is anymore vile to add Rose you may as well pass it direct to the authorities.

    Comment by Nigel — July 19, 2008 @ 7:49 pm

  75. I was at that meeting which was recorded with the permission of the Perilya representative. The general Manager of the mine declined to make comment. I don’t remember Rose being there, Nigel. In fact, Rose wasn’t at the following one either, and neither was Nigel. One has to wonder where this untruth has originated.
    I am also wondering why this has been brought up at all.

    Comment by di — July 19, 2008 @ 8:15 pm

  76. spin the truth this way
    spin it that
    whichever way its viewed
    its truth remains intact
    to stand alone undaunted

    some think to twist the threads
    to make things look amusing
    when in reality it’s there
    for all to see its vulgarity
    of threat to life and limb

    the strings of puppeteer sit idle
    knotted by the twists and turns
    dragging others into the web
    all to fall by truth as seen
    right before our very eyes

    is this a healthy community
    where threats lie undecided
    as to their veracity
    its people twisted this way and that
    to prop up ‘governing’ entities?

    when will we know the truth
    of all that has occurred?
    to carry all before the rush
    unguarded from this threat
    by those we’re told to TRUST?

    Comment by diddy doit — July 19, 2008 @ 8:48 pm

  77. We keep getting side tracked!!
    But, Nigel, perhaps it would be a great idea to record the coming AGM (especially in view of what occurred last year…).

    ps I thought you guys were going to the movies tonight?

    Comment by gina — July 19, 2008 @ 9:16 pm

  78. Ohhh, I read AnGRy yet aGain….
    CouLd it bE a NewsLetter’S funDing ceases,
    a bLog gets PulLed
    for reaSon ObviouS,
    keEp ‘M siLenT,
    keEp ‘M stIll
    cruSh ‘m wIth diVerSioN
    tIs juSt WaTeR undeR tHe BriDge… Or Is It?

    ‘Tis gooD you deBate but, do It GenTley
    PeAce & LiGht be wItH you…

    Comment by KiCkInG BiRd — July 19, 2008 @ 9:44 pm

  79. Re:

    for reaSon ObviouS,
    keEp ‘M siLenT,
    keEp ‘M stIll
    cruSh ‘m wIth diVerSioN
    tIs juSt WaTeR undeR tHe BriDge… Or Is It?

    WATER?

    What’s this with the WATER?
    It’s popping up everywhere else in the outback too.
    This is indeed very interesting.
    The aborigines keep saying –
    It’s all about the WATER
    (and of course their LAND!

    Us locals should be ok for water, shouldn’t we?
    So why is water such a humungous issue?

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 19, 2008 @ 10:49 pm

  80. Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact.
    George Eliot

    Comment by di — July 19, 2008 @ 11:08 pm

  81. Re: Water
    (Don’t know how old this is)

    http://www.acfonline.org.au/news.asp?news_id=631&c=194543

    HELP US HALT THE GREAT ARTESIAN WATER GRAB

    *** ******* has put a proposal to the Governments that would see the company extract an additional 120 million litres of publicly-owned artesian water per day, every day, for the next 70 years. Help us prevent an environmental disaster…

    That’s 60 Olympic swimming pools of water a day, for the lifetime of the mine, for free.

    Already the biggest industrial user of underground water in the southern hemisphere, the ******* ***copper and uranium mine at ***** **** takes 33 million litres a day from the Great Artesian Basin.

    The additional take would see the company extracting more than 150 million litres a day – around a third of the artesian water……..”

    It can’t be this. Communities would have to agree wouldn’t they? Someone should be keeping an eye on the Pirsa Website for ever so ‘Public Notices”

    Besides, where does that much water go to when they’ve finished with it? Wouldn’t it be “dirty”? It couldn’t evaporate.
    Sounds like a looming recipe for community disasters.

    This water doesn’t replace itself. It’s plutonic.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 19, 2008 @ 11:31 pm

  82. I have been wondering that myself Kicking Bird and Margaret……every time I have mentioned ‘water’ instead of getting a drink of it….someone has jumped down my throat. What is it? well..I do know what it is, but why is this so ‘deadly’ a subject to discuss openly?
    Is it because so much is owed for unpaid water bills?
    Is it because the water account for service fees hasn’t grown as one would expect?
    Is it that the accounts are in such a mess that the treasurer can’t make head nor tail of it, so the secretary is doing it?

    So many ‘Is it”s But there’s more…………………………>

    Comment by di — July 19, 2008 @ 11:52 pm

  83. Margaret, we are very fortunate here in Copley, as far as actual water supply is concerned. We have Aroona dam, shared with Leigh Creek, Lyndhurst, and a couple of stations close to town. It has an RO plant which also comes in handy if the water level drops and we need to use bore water. Copley has 1 smallish dam with an overflow, which have not been used for water supply for many years. Then there is the retention dam at the coal mine which is used to prevent the water from Leigh’s Creek from filling the open pit. It is now said to be un-usable, although there used to be sailing and fishing clubs. The aquifer is not far down and many of the homes here have wells or bores, which are now not used due to the salinity of the water. Most homes have rain-water tanks. Rose has referred to these previously as receptacles of coal dust particles.
    Copley did receive a few large rain-water tanks in the last funding drive by the SA Gov. They are sitting near the community hall waiting to be attached to the hall, the cricket club, the tourist bay and the old schoolhouse. I am not sure when they arrived, but it was quite a while ago. I have suggested a working bee to get that work done, but no support from CDPA for that suggestion has been forth-coming. I think we are waiting for a plumber. We have several engineers in town, but they aren’t plumbers. We have several builders in town, even a master builder, but no plumber.
    We have also been selected to be a demonstration town for a special water purification system. This will occur soon.
    So it isn’t a supply problem.

    Comment by di — July 20, 2008 @ 12:24 am

  84. Re: “Copley has 1 smallish dam with an overflow, which have not been used for water supply for many years. Then there is the retention dam at the coal mine which is used to prevent the water from Leigh’s Creek from filling the open pit.

    It is now said to be un-usable, although there used to be sailing and fishing clubs.

    The aquifer is not far down and many of the homes here have wells or bores, which are now not used due to the salinity of the water. Most homes have rain-water tanks.

    Rose has referred to these previously as receptacles of coal dust particles.”

    Di. In all fairness to Rose, (and Rose, if you are reading this carefully, just because your name is mentioned it doesn’t appear to be a criticism.) there are problems with coal sludge being disposed of in landfills and old reservoirs. Arsenic, mercury, chromium, cadmium, and other toxic substances in this waste can indeed contaminate drinking water supplies, the same as coal dust, the dust from zinc which reluctantly no-one mentions, contains LEAD.

    The acids and heavy metals removed from coal and stored in the slurry reservoirs can leach into both surface and groundwater.

    None of this is coming our way without a price. The idea would be for us to all leave our communities, let everyone else in and they would likely bring in alternative supplies of drinking water. It is unlikely that anyone will be drinking from the Artesian Basin soon.

    How about today’s dust storm? Ours came across from Maralinga. Copley would have got a double whammy with Olympic Dam in between. Because it’s invisible, we dismiss it. What can we change anyway?

    However the dust Rose speaks of would indeed be drifting into the drinking water. It sounds like Copley is copping it from several directions. There is a lot of drift in the air from these places. Even during loading. Just because the trains are now covered doesn’t mean they didn’t cause a lot of dust loading and dredging it up. I’ve been to these places.

    I’m also getting the feeling you are both on the same page here.

    Impurities such as acids and heavy metals removed from coal and stored in slurry reservoirs can leach into surface and groundwater.

    Surface mining of coal in south west Virginia removed entire mountaintops and dumped the wastes into
    valleys and streams; between 1985 and 2001. More than seven percent of the region’s forests were lost and more than 1,200 miles of its streams buried or polluted. In addition, waste
    materials from underground mining were placed in large piles above ground, which scarred the landscape and altered natural stream flow. It seemed very similar to the Flinders Wilderness area

    So it’s gradual. Over twenty years or so, no-one really notices. Also we probably wouldn’t notice when we are getting sick. We think we are just getting older or it’s some other reason.

    From what I understand the workers don’t escape either. Won’t go there, but there are enquires all the time. Much of it isn’t released, or it is hard to find the data.

    I’m afraid we are not very special. More like pawns on the bigger chess board of stocks and shares. Any benefits we get from this will be very short lived.

    I don’t think there is a supply problem either (at present). Wondering if there may be a quality problem though. If you are getting a purification system, I’m wondering why Copley needs one. Maybe we will all be wearing those masks soon as well!

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 20, 2008 @ 2:32 am

  85. Ok didn’t see comment 81

    Will have a sleep and look at it tomorrow.
    Many of our committees have their books in dissaray, because everyone is so busy.

    A problem shared is a problem halved!

    One committe from memory was operating insolvent.
    Hmm. does that cause a problem. Better to voluntarily liquidate if it comes to that as the ramifications are not pretty for the members.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 20, 2008 @ 2:44 am

  86. Okay Nigel, if you say you didn’t make the threats then I sincerely apologise for inferring you did.

    Comment by Rose — July 20, 2008 @ 10:08 am

  87. All comments related to death threats anonymous and otherwise have been forwarded to the authorities in the context of a body of evidence ignored by SApol regarding a previous death over a year ago. The information is now in the hands of the AFP and High Tech Crimes Office. Everyone is answerable to the law whether they hide behind pseudonyms or have other people do their bidding. The mis-use and abuse of power by associations is related in this instance and therefore I have notified Consumer Affairs of the abuses. I will suggest to the news site editor a code of conduct to assist people using this site and a reminder that people are subject to state and federal law in the conduct of themselves and the information or comments or threats they make. I strongly suggest also the immediate dissolution of the CDPA now, as its going to happen anyway.

    Comment by Nigel — July 20, 2008 @ 11:01 am

  88. oh, Margaret, certainly Rose isn’t the only person to voice their concerns over coal dust in the drinking water here. It was just that she mentioned it earlier in the thread.
    You certainly have a point when you mention the zinc dust and the zinc mining company here, has their train-load of zinc (in covered wagons) sitting on the siding just north of the town once a fortnight or there-abouts. They have stated that they are a zinc company but gave no assurances that they would not transport the large amount of lead found in the open pit mine. It is just sitting at the mine site. Unfortunately, the mine and the exploration area are upstream of the Aroona dam, the area’s water supply.
    I am not sure of the ability of the RO plant in removing any heavy metal contaminants. I have been informed that the heavy metals will always go into the silt and drop onto the floor of the dam, so will not be a problem for the water used by the towns.

    Comment by di — July 20, 2008 @ 11:21 am

  89. Re: Di – “I am not sure of the ability of the RO plant in removing any heavy metal contaminants.

    I have been informed that the heavy metals will always go into the silt and drop onto the floor of the dam, so will not be a problem for the water used by the towns.”

    This indicates the usual concept that the outback is considered “wasteland”. Unfortunately there are people like us in the way.

    The spin doctors have been busy, haven’t they? We are all literally swallowing this invasion. Beware of anyone bearing gifts! Anyone been offered any gifts? If so you have probably begun selling your right to live in Copley or any other area.

    Check the stats again on the impact and the radius of damage in comment 84. In 20 years time when it has all deteriorated everyone won’t have noticed as we who are going with the flow will be gone and our children will be growing up in a new world. One they didn’t see the beautiful beginning of as the Flinders area has at present. (Well some of it) Slowly slowly this machine keeps on keeping on.

    We are now facing that we are not only targetted as a nuclear waste dump, but every other dump for contaminants. That is why I question why Copley now needs a water purification system and will be a demonstration town!!!! Sounds like there is some reason why we will all be needing this.

    I hope they can demonstate some control of the wind as well.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 20, 2008 @ 1:39 pm

  90. Agreed, the big issue is that Roxby and a lot of mining ventures are not only a disaster for small communities (us and other animals), they simply dont economic sense either…and we have CSIRO scientists (silenced by Howard) saying exactly this years ago…read Barney Foran – Future Dilemmas Report, I just posted on Roxby and the work of Parnell and the ACF last week:

    http://news.rosettamoon.com/

    Comment by Nigel — July 20, 2008 @ 2:11 pm

  91. I agree Margaret. We were engulfed in dust yesterday and could barely see the ‘cut-away’ just outside of town.
    It is interesting that we ‘newcomers’ are very useful when it comes to protecting the business ventures in town from stockpiling zinc and ruining the tourist experience, but then threatened and communication blocked when we continue along the same lines to protect the environment a little further afield.
    Many in the town walk daily, over an area where zinc was loaded from the siding in the past. That area cannot sustain any vegetation. The children and dogs used to play on that pile of heavy metals. 5 of those dogs from one family died of either leukaemia or other cancers.
    The cancer rate and respiratory illnesses in people are very high here, but no statistics are available. All treatments are in the city hospitals.
    As the editor of the newsletter, and having a health background, I could see this occurring and reported it by putting articles in about the health problems associated with heavy metals. These were not my opinions, (although I did express concern) it was all researched material.
    It is now interesting that those who have lived here a long time, want us to do something about the coal dust. Why haven’t they done something?
    One issue which was brought up, concerning the ‘Perilya train’ now ‘allowed’ to use the siding…..this sets up a precedent. The town now hasn’t a leg to stand on if a mining company decides to transport whatever they want from that siding. If we had remained united with a definitive “NO”, we could have prevented this from occurring.

    Comment by di — July 20, 2008 @ 2:16 pm

  92. Thanks for that reply Di. It’s very interesting as I think this non face to face (confrontational) forum is bringing out some interesting isssues.

    Re: ‘Perilya train’ now ‘allowed’ to use the siding…..this sets up a precedent. The town now hasn’t a leg to stand on if a mining company decides to transport whatever they want from that siding.

    I would argue against this. In light of supressed evidence I think you’ll find many things can be reversed. How dare anyone put greedy shareholders before a community full of humans and their pets, natural habitat and our countries beautiful heritage.
    No wonder OzMinerals won’t merge with Perilya. They want to shake off this filthy zinc/lead image. Check out this link: http://news.theage.com.au/business/oz-minerals-bids-to-shed-zinc-firm-tag-20080718-3hcq.html

    Everyone will be watching where they go too.

    Sorry if you are reading this Perilya but for all the PR Owen Hegarty did to make Oxiana what it is, his shareholders still shafted him. Check out this link: http://business.smh.com.au/business/oxiana-investors-deny-hegarty-106m-20080718-3heq.html

    Is it really worth it?

    Now check out Prominent Hills new Wellfield in Pirsa’s Public Notices.

    http://minerals.pir.sa.gov.au/public_notices/prominent_hill_operations_wellfield

    I wonder if this water from our underground supply will be free too.

    Roxby gets free water by the guzzalitre and they aren’t even an Australian company. Makes one wonder eh?

    You guys get together and start looking at the reality of this situation. Why do you think Roxby can’t get tourists. Who wants to see a mining town. Only the Premier.

    How many people are sick over there? From now on you need to start learning to question everything. And don’t make hasty decisions on behalf of other people. Listen to people who research. It may be your life they are saving. Our the child in the Gymkana photo.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 20, 2008 @ 4:15 pm

  93. Re: “The cancer rate and respiratory illnesses in people are very high here, but no statistics are available”.

    In that case the Australian Bureau of Statistics aren’t doing their job.

    A few weeks ago the state gov. had “community consultation” with our town. It wasn’t really a consultation, but the guy showed slides of statistics right down to the birth weight of our babies and also the amount of people with depression and some illnesses which were convenient to mention, as adjusting to their ever hopeful mining boom according to their stats, included pointing out to us that we weren’t suited to the area!!!!

    If they do have statistics on the types of health problems in Copley or any other area related to their stinking mines, then I’ll come over and cut the grass on your common with my nail clippers.

    While I’m here which won’t be long, check this out Progress.
    The internet and the newsletter is not your enemy.

    HOW LONG HAS THE MT. ISA MINE BEEN THERE? HOW LONG HAS IT TAKEN TO GET THIS ATTENTION. WHAT IS HAPPENING ABOUT IT? ….NOTHING BECAUSE THE TOWN LET THEM IN…. cos they were told it will be GOOD for the town. It’s called Progress (no pun meant) or you will be left behind. Maybe we want to be left ALONE, so we can be ourselves and do what we do.

    Mt Isa Lead levels up to 33% times above limits.
    900 homes were in the most contaminated area of Mt Isa

    Press this link and read it.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21404833-2702,00.html

    All the purified water in the world wont’ fix this. It’s in the AIR too…do you get it yet?

    I’ll have a sniff around the net and find out about the 6 year old girl up there and how much lead she has in her body. It’s a shocker.

    How many of you have children and grandchildren in the area? And who is sick again?

    Australian Bureau of Statistics website below.
    http://www.abs.gov.au/

    I doubt they would be “allowed” to publish those telling stats. Maybe someone like Di could research it. Let’s lay bets that it’s not there because it’s a government website. We only vote and pay taxes.

    Did you know it is cheaper to pay out compensation for death and sickness than it is to stop a mine from polutting? However you will still be fighting them on your death bed.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 20, 2008 @ 6:42 pm

  94. Wow!!!

    The department of Miscellaneous Licenses! How Wonderful! What a great SA government concept, I wonder how many people have been told. Hmmn? I think I will apply for a licence to independantly review all current mining licences to see if there is any total embodied net energy cost planetary benefits…Thanks marg, I never realised I was missing the boat on how mining applications work but now that its clear im far more positive about PIRSA…silly me :x , I always fail to read the fine print…Please let SA and the world know that there is a ‘miscellaneous’ category of application that seem to cover everything that all those over ones miss…maybe we can apply to use the land for silly things…like wildlife habitat or re-vegetation of areas that that have been destroyed by a hundred years of pastoralism and unvetted mining by all these companies that have been mentioned..MIss..Siily..Anus..how did I ever MISS it :)

    Comment by Nigel — July 20, 2008 @ 7:10 pm

  95. Re; Post 91

    Di, I would like to make another resonse to that as I’ve noted some alarming points.

    Will reply when there is more time.

    Those dogs that died, they have a stronger consitution than us. Just a shorter life span… chat more. That is very serious.
    One would think that would have set off alarm bells.
    My question for the present is: Why hasn’t it?
    And I repeat, how many people are ill over there?

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 20, 2008 @ 8:44 pm

  96. speaking to the indigenous women, every family has lost at least one baby/child.
    there is a high rate of asthma, diabetes(of course) renal disease, heart disease.
    INteresting that there is an alarming number of people from Leigh Creek who have cancers of some sort. Bells ringing..of course. You should try getting stats on this hot potato.

    Comment by di — July 20, 2008 @ 10:28 pm

  97. the way it works here, is that people who have serious illnesses and need more than just basic care, get flown down to port Augusta or Adelaide. Of course, those stats then belong to Adelaide. I think nearly every family has been touched by cancer. I doubt very much that a mining town would want that type of information on pubic record as belonging to their mining company. Of course the older people who were here during the tests at Maralinga have all been exposed to high doses of radiation. I was talking to an elder who remembered the thick black cloud going over his place and getting stomach problems after that.
    Having a health research background helps…or hinders in my case as they want to ‘shoot the messenger’.
    When the stats came out in the health review of Leigh Creek hospital, I think about 80% of admissions were attributed to lifestyle. eg. alcohol, diet and lack of exercise. There are constant programs to increase awareness of lifestyle type chronic illness.

    Comment by di — July 20, 2008 @ 10:50 pm

  98. Maybe I should mention now that I believe it was Zinifex who dumped the zinc piles here before, were meant to clean it up and rehabilitate the site, but has done nothing as far as I am aware. Someone else had to come in and clean the piles up. I was here when they were doing it.
    Perilya, who bought the Beltana, Reliance and Aroona zinc mine sites and exploration rights, attempted to use the previous zinc dumping as a precedent for their stockpiling development proposal. I have that proposal, and so do several other people in town. It was one of the battle fields all people in town came on board for. We were united in this huge ‘NO WAY’ voice.
    It surprised me when the train option was allowed to go ahead without a whimper. A notice went up the afternoon before (a Saturday afternoon when the general store was closed and no one would be going there to read the notice board). The ‘shunting awareness’ BBQ on the Sunday, is now on public record in Copley Newsletter issue 24 April 2008. Most of the children there were engaged in the peaceful protest against the zinc train. A school program was to be organised using a pamphlet to inform the children of the safety issues. I have no idea whether this occurred.

    Comment by di — July 20, 2008 @ 11:32 pm

  99. Re: 98
    So Zinifex started the dumping. What mining companies DON’T you have hiding over there dredging out the sanctuaries?

    Do any of them clean up their flaming mess or just leave it there for the kids to play in.

    Sure hope those kids got the info. I’ll send you guys a link later and you should all take the time to study the contents.

    There are nearly 100 posts on here. Whoever makes the 100th post I’ll send them a token opal. It had better be someone from Copley. I’m a bit slow/busy, but will send.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 21, 2008 @ 12:41 am

  100. [Quote] A notice went up the afternoon before (a Saturday afternoon when the general store was closed and no one would be going there to read the notice board). [Quote]

    Will check my records on this one, but if I remember correctly I myself notified you about the train awareness program several days beforehand.

    Comment by Rose — July 21, 2008 @ 7:31 am

  101. Yes, you did Rose, but it wasn’t important that I get informed. I know how to cross a train line and I don’t play between the carriages…..it was the children and elderly who needed to be targeted. I am not the community and it was not my responsibility to go round and tell everyone. I had another agenda and I believe that we, as a peaceful protest, were very effective.

    Comment by di — July 21, 2008 @ 8:59 am

  102. I was contacted by a person in Qld who wanted to come here and do hair sampling for zinc and lead. He never got back to me. He was trying to sell some volcanic rock treatment and I wasn’t enthused about that prospect without rigorous testing and research data on it’s effectiveness or its side effects. He unfortunately was not able to provide me with those statistics.

    Comment by di — July 21, 2008 @ 11:21 am

  103. “Meant to mention the issue with a JP witnessing a document. That in itself does not legalise the contents. The JP is not entitled to read the document. Only witness that the right person signed it.”
    A question Margaret on this issue…can the JP who witnesses, say a change of the constitution, also be the Public Officer of that association? Or even a committee member?

    Comment by di — July 21, 2008 @ 11:38 am

  104. Re: comment 100
    Rose, I owe you an opal.

    Re comment 103
    Not sure di, as JP’s have their own guidelines and code of ethics and need to be accountable also. It doesn’t change the fact that a JP’s is not required to read the document, only to bear witness to the signatures. So he/she has a separate responsibility to that position as well.

    The whole committee is responsible for disclosure or non disclosure of the contents of documents presented to Consumer Affairs, as they should also have a copy of the legislation governing Association Incorporated bodies. This is a very big document.

    There is a bit more to committees than just a constitution. The whole committee is also responsible for those they elect as signatories as it would have been voted on to adopt this resolution.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 21, 2008 @ 12:53 pm

  105. Thank you Margaret.

    Comment by di — July 21, 2008 @ 2:23 pm

  106. [Quote] Re: comment 100
    Rose, I owe you an opal. [Quote]

    Thanks Margaret, opals are my birthstone so that’s rather appropriate! I will contact you privately with my address details.

    Comment by Rose — July 21, 2008 @ 10:11 pm

  107. Ohh, MaNy qUeStionS,
    nEeDinG MaNy AnsWerS,
    SO MaNy aSkeD sO LonG BeFore,
    aNd So mAnY NeVeR aNsWeReD
    sHoUlD bE rEcOrDs iF a MiNuTeS TaKeN
    BuT MaNy PlUm RuN oUt Of tIme….

    Comment by KiCkinG BiRd — July 22, 2008 @ 12:15 am

  108. 104. “The whole committee is responsible for disclosure or non disclosure of the contents of documents presented to Consumer Affairs, as they should also have a copy of the legislation governing Association Incorporated bodies. This is a very big document.

    There is a bit more to committees than just a constitution. The whole committee is also responsible for those they elect as signatories as it would have been voted on to adopt this resolution.” Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 21, 2008

    Who are the committee meant to disclose this to Margaret? The community, their members? From what has come to light, only 6 people, those who were at the AGM viewed the document to change the constitution, and therefore were aware of its contents. No copy has been handed out to the members. Now, I realise this was quite a while ago, but it is still not available for the members. I personally have requested one, as was suggested by the secretary, but do not have a copy from CDPA.
    It seems strange that a water leak/burst pipe was what stopped that particular AGM in 2003. Was there time to peruse the changes, discuss them or have them explained to the members? Was it a case of…’quick, just sign the thing and we must rush off to fix the leak’ scenario?
    Maybe the present treasurer could answer that question, or the present Public Officer…oh no, she was the JP, so she didn’t need to read it? Maybe the last committee’s secretary/treasurer can answer this one?

    Comment by di — July 22, 2008 @ 2:29 pm

  109. ooppssss…sorry, there seems to be a typo…there were 8 people at that 2003 AGM.

    Comment by di — July 22, 2008 @ 7:10 pm

  110. Re: Comment 108 “Who are the committee meant to disclose this to Margaret? The community, their members? From what has come to light, only 6 people, those who were at the AGM viewed the document to change the constitution, and therefore were aware of its contents.”

    Di, Firstly a Progress or any committee is meant to be a group of people who can be left responsible to act in the best interest of their membership, in this case the community as a whole. Obviously the majority gets it’s way. The very word progress implies democracy and non impartiality.

    Without knowing the details intimately or being present at a meeting that decided to allow non residents of Copley to vote at an AGM, it is difficult to know why this was necessary.

    To answer your question of disclosure: It would seem fairly obvious that as conflicts of interest must be disclosed, that if the non Copley people were employees of business owners who were members of Progress at the time this change was made, it should have been declared at the AGM and objections requested. Usually in this instance, members with a conflict usually leave the meeting to allow for discussion. As well as this, without checking the larger document of Association Inc legislation, it would seem it would be of interest also to Consumer Affairs, who trust that a consensus had been reached on this issue and that conflicts had been declared, discussed and considered. If this did not happen whilst Progress was in the hands of a different committee, then the new committee should have done their homework upon entering their new positions and rectified any “mess” they say they, inherited.

    Committee responsibilities are indeed great and must be taken seriously. Members in committee roles can’t be seen to be benefitting even slightly from alterations to the constitution, even if inherited. Obviously it will create discord in the community as well as it is probably illegal.

    General meetings of Progress should be open to the community as mentioned before. A time frame should be given for “questions without notice”, and comments or ideas from the community whether in writing or not. It can be minuted that this dialogue took place and what the outcome of discussion was. The only thing is that a non committee member can’t vote. If non attendace of the community isn’t required the perhaps that would be a wise this to investigate.

    Each committee member should be wondering how it would feel if they were on the outer circle when important decisions were being made. Transparancy is vital, to give the wider community an understanding as to why decisions have been made. A community does not exist for the businesses alone. Surprisingly competition is not the enemy. It is healthy and attracts more people to the area. Choices are good for visitors as they will stay longer and so are the differences that make a community so unique. We often used to hear about the art shop in Copley. This could attract markets where many regional art groups would visit to display. Advertise….things like that. Would would attract people who not only would sell, but buy as well, have car repairs, need accommodation.

    If the community is not happy with it’s Progress body, there is nothing to stop them registering their own Association and sourcing funding to assist with projects that aren’t being catered for.

    Hope this helps a bit. Will put some more time into this.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 23, 2008 @ 11:38 am

  111. Just doing the evening ASX check:

    Perilya is in the top 20 of global producers for zinc and the top 10 for lead production

    http://www.minerals.pir.sa.gov.au/mining_regulation/mineral_resource_
    development_in_south_australia/beltana_flinders_zinc

    Perilya COMMODITY PRICES as at 23 Jul 2008, 22:38 EST
    Broken Hill, Mt Isa and Flinders regions

    ZINC US$/T 1,885.50 +64.00
    LEAD US$/T 2,159.50 +124.00
    SILVER US$/OZ 17.70 -0.22
    COPPER US$/T 8,441.00 +51.00

    Lead is bringing a good price.
    Zinc is up a bit
    Copper not bad either

    Have this lot been “good corporate citizens” to Copley.
    Usually we get something out of the interlopers.
    Perhaps they could help with the “Greening Copley” program.
    Who usually organises that?

    We have to pump our grey water onto the oval and treat our sewage just to keep a couple of areas green. It looks funny from the air. Stands out in the desert. It’s one place you can thankfully dispense with a lawn mower though.

    Quote from Di: “We have also been selected to be a demonstration town for a special water purification system”.

    This still has me intrigued.
    What water are “they” going to purify Di?
    And why? Is more interesting.
    Is it a desalination plant? Not clear what water supply you are on.
    I’ve just seen a map of the underground water streams here. It’s fascinating and very complex, however there is always the old tap into the GAB. Even if “they” had to pay for it, it won’t make “our” water last any longer. Do they think the world is going to end soon”. They seem to be using it like there’s no tomorrow and it hasn’t even started yet!

    Why would the govt give anyone water for nothing? This is a mystery. We are so few and we can’t get it for free. You’d think they’d look after the voters and taxpayers first. We are even expected to emit less carbon than the mines. Now this is an even bigger mystery. I wonder what would happen if we suddenly had to vote again.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 23, 2008 @ 11:23 pm

  112. Yep, it all seems to come back to the water and our resources. As soon as their is a straightforward and honest approach to resources and water administration, communities can get on with living life..it seems to me that both ‘tourism’ and ‘mining’ have corrupted some people within communities and diverted attention away from ‘healthy communities’ in favour of short term greed…and that is quite sad…the sooner we follow the lead of WA and reform governance of Progress Associations the better..when it comes down to it Australians and especially outback communities are suffering at the expense of these trumped up economic ideals, its about time politicians start focusing their efforts back on the constituency and the environment instead of pandering constantly to global economic greed…good comments marg…time to examine our water management locally and more closely!

    Comment by Nigel — July 24, 2008 @ 12:15 am

  113. Re: Copley Constituents

    Technology has provided a way so that if you are put on restrictions and your water levels do drop
    then you can recycle or purify your grey water and probably other water too. This is probably a good
    idea as we all must conserve water for the mines.

    Isn’t technology wonderful? I wonder if this is what you are getting as there doesn’t seem to
    be anything else obvious at present. This was developed in 2006, so by now we are probably able
    to drink this as well.

    NUBIAN S OASIS GREYWATER RECYCLING ATTRACTS COMMERCIAL INTEREST FROM WATER SOLUTIONS ENGINEERS

    Greywater recycling is now feasible using Nubian s OASIS greywater recycling processor in the system design. Water solutions engineers are seeking compact, above ground equipment that allows recycling for irrigation or internal reuse in toilets and laundries. Property investors, offering sustainable Green Buildings to environmentally responsible tenants, can install economic OASIS systems that save substantial amounts of drinking water up to 60% of conventional usage patterns

    Nubian launched its OASIS greywater processor late in Dec 2006, and has a growing number of residential installations in VIC, NSW, ACT, QLD and SA. The systems have been accredited in several states to a level at which the treated water may be used internally in laundries and toilets, and for above ground irrigation.

    Now we just need to find huge open AIR filters.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 24, 2008 @ 12:37 am

  114. This system sounds really good Margaret. Thank you for your information

    Comment by di — July 27, 2008 @ 1:46 pm

  115. Yes, thanks marg, gret water and poo toilets are on the vision list.

    Unfortunately a major flood of water escaped from the mains meter this morning…this would have been metered at some point. Something occured the day before which altered the pressure gradient.. :x

    Comment by Nigel — July 27, 2008 @ 6:32 pm

  116. Was wondering about that Nigel. Just as well I was having a bath instead of a shower this time. Did the regular volunteer water crew get called out?

    Comment by di — July 27, 2008 @ 7:14 pm

  117. If not…why not? Did the old crew go out and fix it?

    Comment by di — July 27, 2008 @ 9:42 pm

  118. We’ll be busy digging tomorrow…

    Comment by newseditor — July 27, 2008 @ 9:51 pm

  119. Re Rose Earlier query about the legalities of “stacking committees”

    This was published in the Melbourne age in 2005

    Labor split over action on stackers
    By Ian Munro, Paul Austin
    March 12, 2005

    The state ALP president says the party is in crisis and he wants state and federal leaders to intervene.
    The Victorian ALP has split over branch stacking, with state Labor president Brian Daley yesterday
    accusing the ruling administrative committee of refusing to take action to stamp out “corrupt and illegal practices”.

    In an email to local branch secretaries, obtained by The Age, Mr Daley said he was gravely concerned that the administrative committee – which is dominated by the right-wing faction of Premier Steve Bracks – was refusing to “comply with their responsibilities as set out in the rules of the Victorian branch”.

    Mr Daley, a member of the minority left-wing faction, last night told The Age he intended to write to Mr Bracks, federal Labor leader Kim Beazley and ALP national president Barry Jones, urging them to intervene to ensure the party confronted branch stackers.

    “Obviously the party is in crisis over the branch-stacking issue,” he said.

    I guess the answer is it’s not considered ethical or legal in fact corrupt.

    Definition of Ethical: 1.) Conforming to accepted standards of social or professional behaviour
    2.) Adhering to ethical and moral principles

    Definitions of Corrupt: 1.) Lacking in integrity 2.) Not straight; dishonest or immoral or evasive
    3.) Containing errors or alterations 4.) Place under suspicion or cast doubt upon

    Hope that helps answer the question ie: not recommended even for volunteers

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 27, 2008 @ 10:15 pm

  120. Wow! I always thought branch stacking was corrupt but its also looks illegal, and volunteers cant escape legal prosecution if they act in defiance of the regulations pertaining to the incorporated body – (Progress) Nice research Marg!

    Comment by Nigel — July 27, 2008 @ 10:23 pm

  121. Re: “Unfortunately a major flood of water escaped from the mains meter this morning…this would have been metered at some point. Something occured the day before which altered the pressure gradient”

    Nigel, I’m not sure if it’s meter or metre. Will have to check the Wordweb. What happened, did a pipe burst?

    Our pipes are so old the salt corrodes them after a while. Council is flat out replacing them.
    So far luckily they have been on their side of the metre (meter)

    We had someone hack into one our our water mains out near the dog fence yesterday. Would have preferred a simple burst than to think a major main had been tapped. What happened over your way?

    If it’s major, I’ll give it some space. It’s one way of getting our upgrades done. Send over some info.

    Comment by Margaret Mackay — July 27, 2008 @ 10:24 pm

  122. So true Margaret, and considering our town water pipe system is classified as rural irrigation, I would say some major changes need to be done. It isn’t set up for pressure it seems.
    Interesting comments about ‘stacking’ and your definitions are really appropriate at this time.
    As for what happened….wish we knew….but it was a lot of water. Mostly the breaks are in the residential area, but this was right at the metre, much bigger pipes than in the town. Wonder if it was salt degradation?

    Comment by di — July 27, 2008 @ 11:25 pm

  123. Hmmm….yes, some form of degradation Di, but we can rule out salt at this point in the investigation :cool:

    Comment by Nigel — July 28, 2008 @ 12:15 am

  124. Margaret:
    “We had someone hack into one our our water mains out near the dog fence yesterday. Would have preferred a simple burst than to think a major main had been tapped. What happened over your way?”

    Too early to release information marg but its pretty major…not quite a simple burst, will keep folks informed as we learn more information :shock:

    Sorry to hear about your hacking, hope this does’nt turn out to be an epidemic!!

    Comment by Nigel — July 28, 2008 @ 12:21 am

  125. bon jour

    i notice the news.copley.org.au site still displays that picture of the back end of the white horse in the snowstorm. guess that means the bill for hosting the site still hasn’t been paid! or no one on CPA knows html. don’t you just love it when people get up on the moral high ground, but when you take a closer look turns out they are actually standing in a hole in the ground. maybe it was one of those holes around town that the water crew has been digging. haha. this is really so hilarious perhaps it would make a good place for the laughter club to start the chuckles going. i mean what’s even funnier is that the page displays the link to the new site, so it doesn’t actually stop anyone finding the new blog, all it does is slow the websurfer down for 2 seconds to bring them a special announcement that CPA is the laughing stock of the internet. oh that’s rich. i am cracking up. this is the funniest stuff i’ve seen on the web since wonkette.org.

    au revoir

    starman

    Comment by l'homme d'étoile — July 28, 2008 @ 2:59 pm

  126. Bonjour Starman,

    Comment alle vouz or even ‘tu’ if that not too personal!

    David Lynch has approached us and is trying to wrestle directorship :roll: , he reckons Twin Peaks is a walk in the park compared to the “Copley Water Club”, then I just got a call from Anthony Perkins who wants a role as well. Nothing has been signed, I told them the script is still emerging and they need to talk to you about the screenplay.

    Yep, the Copley commons is looking like swiss cheese at the moment so we better get planting some trees as there is plenty of water on the loose !

    Comment by Nigel — July 28, 2008 @ 5:30 pm

  127. I find it ‘strange’ that the involvement of “newcomers” to Copley is encouraged when its a working bee, tourist enhancement, community building activities (bar ensuring a non-toxic environment), yet discouraged, silenced and threatened when it comes to membership and involvement in the “Progress” association, preferring to allow “outsiders” to get a show in and representation who have a stake in the promotion and operation of the mining company? ‘Strange’ is perhaps the wrong word here, ‘disingenuous’, or ‘conflict of interest’, or, failing to truely represent the interests of the Copley Communities comes closer to my meaning. Just an opinion.

    Comment by Adrian — July 28, 2008 @ 10:27 pm

  128. Does it cut it both ways with the SA govt too with their liberal donation of commonly owned water in the basin?

    Will the govt make mileage out of disfunctional and illegitimate Progress associations in terms of grouping them all up together under direct governmental control and supervision? Hypothetically speaking, we can’t have communities holding the mines to account while the goverment endorses illegal associations protecting the mines, can we?

    Comment by Adrian — July 28, 2008 @ 10:44 pm

  129. [Quote] Then, in April last year, everything changed. The funding for the newsletter, paid through CDPA, was not available. This was done without consultation. Even to this day, I have not received any reason for this decision. – Di [Quote]

    Di, please tell the truth. You were told the reason why, & you know it. It was your decision to not reapply for the position, which you were invited to do. Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 6:06 pm

    [Quote] I did say, April last year….2007 Rose. -Di [Quote]

    Yes, now that I re-read it I can see that you did. Once more I apologise! However if that is the case, then it was obviously during the tenure of the previous committee, & I believe that in all fairness a new committee should not be blamed for the actions of their predecessors. Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 10:55 pm

    Why is it then that the newsletter was not funded under this new committee, which is responsible for its funding, Rose?

    Comment by Adrian — July 28, 2008 @ 11:01 pm

  130. Good comments Adrian and welcome to the script, just need to clarify that simon has current writes to screenplay, I am in dialogue now with both Martin Scorcese and Lynch but all material in this thread is copyrighted@ “The Water Club” for my forthcoming book (negotiations Penguin publishing – any approaches to other publishers will not be tolerated lightly) :x …sorry..resume everyone, just had to get that off my chest!

    Comment by Nigel — July 28, 2008 @ 11:54 pm

  131. Re: Comment 130
    Nigel, I would like to clarify that in light of the interest in this thread, which has developed into an intriguing story, that I also have obtained permission to use selected material from this thread for our regional readers. It has been rivetting reading for those who have found it however many who have not returned to the site will still be awaiting a response.
    I have chosen to use the permission granted in a previous post to extract quotes for our publication.

    Margaret Mackay

    Comment by Margaret — July 29, 2008 @ 1:25 am

  132. Of course Margaret, Coober Pedy Times started this thread and should spread the news wide and far :) as all people in the region should…its become a important document which is demonstrating the cause of dis-unity and is also a blueprint for the reform of these things, Progress Associations, if we are to have them, we can at least structure them for the benefit of all people and make sure they dont ever again become the vehicle for corruption or private self interest.

    Comment by Nigel — July 29, 2008 @ 11:48 am

  133. “Yes, now that I re-read it I can see that you did. Once more I apologise! However if that is the case, then it was obviously during the tenure of the previous committee, & I believe that in all fairness a new committee should not be blamed for the actions of their predecessors. Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 10:55 pm”
    Actually, if you accept a committee position in an Incorporated Association, you do take on the responsibility of the previous committee’s decisions. If there is a problem with the activities of the previous committee and you are aware of same, you need to do something about it, not cover it up, because then you are liable, by law.
    Thank you for making this point Adrian, and welcome to this thread.

    Comment by di — July 29, 2008 @ 1:47 pm

  134. ooppsss…posted in the wrong thread…should be in CDPA one…sorry

    the previous comment di is referring to has been moved to the CDPA thread – amt

    Comment by di — July 29, 2008 @ 7:59 pm

  135. [Quote] Then, in April last year, everything changed. The funding for the newsletter, paid through CDPA, was not available. This was done without consultation. Even to this day, I have not received any reason for this decision. [Quote]

    Di, please tell the truth. You were told the reason why, & you know it. It was your decision to not reapply for the position, which you were invited to do.

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 6:06 pm

    I did say, April last year….2007 Rose.

    Comment by di — July 13, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

    [Quote] I did say, April last year….2007 Rose. [Quote]

    Yes, now that I re-read it I can see that you did. Once more I apologise! However if that is the case, then it was obviously during the tenure of the previous committee, & I believe that in all fairness a new committee should not be blamed for the actions of their predecessors.

    Comment by Rose — July 13, 2008 @ 10:55 pm

    Why is it then that the newsletter was not funded under this new committee, which is responsible for its funding, Rose?

    Comment by Adrian — July 28, 2008 @ 11:01 pm

    This needs answering I believe. Rose did write a letter in April this year letting me know that the ‘funding round for the newsletter was over’. On questioning Mark Shirley of OACDT, it was explained to me that there was no ‘funding round’ for newsletters, just a total amount of $2,500/ financial year which could be reimbursed for production costs. This was certainly not explained to me when funding was first offered by the chairperson of CDPA, the week after the “Copley Crier” was produced. This newsletter produced approximately 10 copies of 4 pages with page 3 and 4 the same. There was no news about Copley. One article discussed a new water pipeline to Lyndhurst due to the lack of quality of that water. I conducted a small verbal needs assessment within the town and produced a newsletter in response to that research.
    Since that time I have continued to print news about Copley and district, about the people, their concerns and their environment.
    I will not go over yet again, the financial arrangements with CDPA. Needless to say, the passing on of that verbal contract to the new committee should have been discussed with me. I have a phone and my contact details are printed on the back of the newsletter.
    In March this year, a notice was posted up on the community notice board about a Proposal Brief to “develop and produce a community newsletter for Copley”. There was no consultation with me, the editor of an ongoing and successful publication. On enquiry to the “Copley Progress Association” who put out this document, I received no reply. It wasn’t until April 2008 that I received the letter from Rose.
    The conditions applied to the production of this new newsletter were counter to freedom speech, freedom of the media and financially inappropriate. Total control of content was to be in the hands of the Progress Assoc. As I had experienced denial of reply, no consultation, no answer to my pertinent questions regarding the research component of the proposal, I did not feel that respect, nor trust, could be attributed to that unidentified body.
    I have since discovered that OACDT provided the document outlining the proposal, as a template for progress associations who wished to support a newsletter in their community. I have not been able to get a copy of the template to compare the details.
    Since that time, I have supplied the CDPA with documentation of my expenditure on production costs and funding monies supplied by the previous committee. I get the distinct impression that I am not believed.
    Thanks to the Copley History Group who came to the rescue and have been funding the newsletter. The community can still have their voices heard, their workshops advertised and photos of events and achievements published. Regardless of the CDPA who object to freedom of speech, freedom of their members asking questions, freedom of the spread of knowledge, freedom of information sharing, and above all, their members being able to learn how to grow their own food…..I will continue.
    Unfortunately, this month’s edition has been delayed due to the enormous response from this blog and breaking stories occurring every day. It will arrive when it does.

    Comment by di — July 29, 2008 @ 8:47 pm

  136. I had an interesting dream last night after reading and responding to this blog site… I dreamed that the Copley District Progress Association was funding independent air quality, water quality and soil testing on a regular basis with additional testing immediately after anomylous weather (dust storms, holding dam overflows, dam bed core samples, and the like) in the interest of the Community of Copley. As I woke up, i pinched myself. Of course they would already be doing such testing, as it is in the best interest of the community they represent. But then it struck me, something Rose said earlier about her installing water filters for her own house due to copious amounts of coal dust entering her drinking water, and i just wondered, doubted for a moment that Progress was actually progressing. I shook my head and pinched myself again. Well if it’s good enough for the CDPA, it’s got to be an acceptable level of contamination. And if its good enough for coal dust, it’s just got to be good enough for zinc and lead. And as for cancer, isn’t that just some hippy newcomer star sign? We’re tougher than that astrology mumbo jumbo! Anyway, if worse comes to worse, environmental disaster sites will one day be great tourist attractions. There’s always a brighter side… maybe they could go lead-skiiing on the dam, great buyancy advantages over pure water there :)

    Comment by Adrian — July 29, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

  137. ADRIAN –

    SOIL TESTING kits are available from any PIRSA office.

    CONTACT: Andrew Harding, Rural Solutions SA Clare Office, Telephone (08) 8842 6231, Mobile 0417 886 835, Email harding.andrew@saugov.sa.gov.au

    COMMUNITY WATER KIT AVAILABLE TO SA ARID LANDS COMMUNITY
    2006: South Australian Arid Lands NRM Board General Manager, John Gavin, says, “the Board is keen to be involved in this community water initiative and believes that the water testing kit will benefit many water conservation projects underway in the region.”

    Individuals, schools, community groups and associations taking part in water conservation projects within the arid lands are encouraged to apply for use of the water testing kit. For further information or to register interest please contact Melissa Horgan, Community Landcare Officer, South Australian Arid Lands
    NRM Board on 08 8648 5979. or Contact Ph: 08 8204 9328 or 0412 215 540

    http://www.audit.sa.gov.au/99-00/etsa3/part1.htm
    1.4.2 Leigh Creek Township Lease

    The State has granted to the successful bidder a lease of the Leigh Creek Township as part of the disposal process for Flinders Power.

    I note that pursuant to the terms of this lease the Lessee is required to use the township to provide:

    *
    township services for the permanent residents living in the township;
    *
    water for the permanent residents of the surrounding communities;
    *
    disposal of waste services for the permanent residents of Copley.

    Whilst I understand, that significant consultation was undertaken with Leigh Creek Township residents in relation to the proposed lease arrangements and I note, that the vast majority of Leigh Creek Township residents are employed at the Leigh Creek coal mine, of specific concern to me are the provisions of the Proclamation of immunity from liability which was made pursuant to section 35 of the Electricity Corporations (Restructuring and Disposal) Act1999.

    Under this Proclamation, the Generation Lessor Corporation and the Crown are both given immunity from any statutory, civil or criminal liability with respect to the Leigh Creek Township Lease including any liability for loss, damage, injury or death suffered by a person through any cause whatsoever while, or, as the result of being in the Leigh Creek Township.

    For the State to seek to exempt itself from liability to the residents of Leigh Creek Township from its own negligent or criminal acts represents a failure by the State to act responsibly to protect the public interest. Accordingly, I believe consideration needs to be given to urgently obtaining legal advice as to the relevant construction to be placed on the Proclamation and, if necessary, amend the Proclamation so as to ensure that the legal rights of the citizens of Leigh Creek Township are no less vis-à-vis the Crown than other citizens of this State.

    WONDER WHAT THE LEGAL RIGHTS OF THE LEIGH CREEK COAL MINE WORKERS IS AT JULY 2008

    Comment by You've Got Our Attention — July 30, 2008 @ 6:03 am

  138. Thanks YGOA (yoga might be easier),

    Proclamation of what?….Immunity?…Immunity from accountability under the seal of common law? I must admit I thought this was a hoax until I checked out the link, it appears very real but very unreal at the same time. Yoga, does the Governor of SA know about this, at first glance it would appear that constitutional rights have been ignored in these arrangements?. At second glance it may be at cause with some of the issues covered in this thread. If the Governor is reading this thread or the GG can you please comment (or speak at least to the Privy Council) to see if this not only un-Australian but in breach of the common seal of the crown…thanks yoga!

    Comment by Nigel — July 30, 2008 @ 1:41 pm

  139. Re: comment 138/139
    Because of the cocktail of mineralsl under the ground in SA (and anywhere probably) and the fact we are drinking this water, many of us here use those jug style water filters just in case. Some of us still have tanks and with all the mining around the state and up north, we cringe everytime there is a dust storm.
    Until you discover that the whole town probably needs it’s water purified or filtered, it is not a bad interim measure. I thought the purification system you have been promised was just a nice gift, but it’s probably going to be part of a lifesaving device as long as you don’t breath.

    Comment by Margaret — July 30, 2008 @ 5:08 pm

  140. Re: comment 137

    Wondering why the state exemption from liability.
    If these people at coal mines are prepared to put their lives on the line for a quid, then they must know about this as the auditor mentions consulation. What I don’t understand is how they are allowed or would consider having their children there.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080326201751.htm

    “Residents of coal-mining communities have long complained of impaired health,” Michael Hendryx, Ph.D., associate director of the WVU Institute for Health Policy Research in WVU’s Community Medicine department, said. “This study substantiates their claims. Those residents are at an increased risk of developing chronic heart, lung and kidney diseases.”

    According to Hendryx, the data show that people in coal mining communities:

    have a 70 percent increased risk for developing kidney disease.
    have a 64 percent increased risk for developing chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) such as emphysema.
    are 30 percent more likely to report high blood pressure (hypertension). ……….etc”

    Comment by Margaret — July 30, 2008 @ 5:29 pm

  141. yes, I did wonder why RJ was trying to get the people to shift the system to Marree instead, and that Copley didn’t really need it, that the donators insisted that it be at Copley. Maybe they know something we don’t.
    I believe that about 6 years ago RJ was going to begin negotiations with EPA to commence air, water and earth testing, but nothing seems to have come of it. I have mentioned it a few more times and a prof of geology is willing to help us get independent testing done, we are hamstrung until that person gets here.
    Now RJ is to begin another rolled-over year of Building Healthy Communities (a Commonwealth funded project), that we shouldn’t begin that year with a base-line testing of our environment. BHC is meant to concentrate on improving the outcomes of chronic disease processes, but seems to focus on lifestyle health issues to a certain degree. I am on the steering group so hope to have an impact on some research into the real issues of chronic disease here.
    One question which keeps popping up in my mind is, the big “WHY” we are being guided into believing that all out health problems are related only to our lifestyle, without the baseline parameters yet to be identified.
    Why is there a chronic alcohol problem?
    Why is there a high rate of asthma and other breathing problems?
    Why is there an extremely high rate of cancer in this area?
    Why is there a high rate of kidney disease?
    Why are there many kids here with ADHD and learning difficulties?
    OK…we know nutrition is a problem, but is being addressed in BHC.
    We know that lack of exercise is a major factor in obesity, and that is being addressed.
    We know that addiction and misuse of alcohol and drugs and gambling is rife in the aboriginal communities…depression and metal illness is also high….but how are we to address this issue if we don’t understand the reason?
    Considering the above comments, are we being hookwinked into taking the full blame for our illnesses and dis-ease, or is the ?system? just covering up their own culpability?

    Comment by di — August 2, 2008 @ 3:51 pm

  142. I do apologise for the connotation in the above comment…..
    “We know that addiction and misuse of alcohol and drugs and gambling is rife in the aboriginal communities…….”
    Obviously this problem is rife amongst most outback towns, Copley and Leigh Creek are not exceptions, whether you are black, white or brindle. It seems to be the second-favourite sport and strangely adherent to sporting activities.
    “…..depression and metal illness is also high…..”, across the board as well. Seems to be an Australian idio-syn-crasy.

    Comment by di — August 2, 2008 @ 10:33 pm

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Life, Light & Laughter in Copley, Northern Flinders Ranges, South Australia, Earth, Cosmos!

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